Last word on whether Ford can tell if software has ever been changed?

[Steves06GT]

Seriously considering buying a tuner of some sort, likely the diablo. But I thought I read somewhere that they have the ability to tell if the programming was changed at all, even if you load the original software back again. Is this true? Any way to get around it?
Thanks

 

[bat24]

I beleve they can pull that imformation from the black box . But i have not heard of any dealerships really doing that.Unless maybe the tune and mod are resonsible for your problem. As far as getting around it no idea.

 

[red05bullitgt]

I beleve they can pull that imformation from the black box . But i have not heard of any dealerships really doing that.Unless maybe the tune and mod are resonsible for your problem. As far as getting around it no idea.

According to [email protected], Ford doesn't have an actual black box, compared to what GM installs in their vehicles..I'm not really sure what Ford calls thier device, but it doesn't store or record info. in the same way as GM's meaning that with GM's..there is no way of getting around their setup..However with Ford's, there is a way.. First, you return you're vehicle back to stock programming, Second, disconnect the negative battery terminal. Third, after an hour.. reconnect the battery. and finally make sure to drive at least 50 miles or so, before taking you're vehicle in for service..If you follow each step, you should be able to get around it, without Ford knowing as to whether or not, you made any changes...Anyway, hope this helps.. also look at it this way..whenever you take you're vehicle in for service..Ford ends up re-flashing you're computer, each and every time any factory repair work is performed, so how could they really prove who did the actual re-flash anyhow and when ?? just a thought..

 

[1fastz]

Sean is not very knowledgable when it comes to tech hes a salesman dont take his word on tech advice unles you speak to murillo or josh directly on tech issues sean will just look over his shoulder and ask someone what the answer is to your question...

As for the 05 computer no one currently knows for SURE if they can detect it some for techs i know claim they can even if you clear the above keep alive memory as was just described others claim they can not.

its up in the air at the moment

 

[red05bullitgt]

Sean is not very knowledgable when it comes to tech hes a salesman dont take his word on tech advice unles you speak to murillo or josh directly on tech issues sean will just look over his shoulder and ask someone what the answer is to your question...

As for the 05 computer no one currently knows for SURE if they can detect it some for techs i know claim they can even if you clear the above keep alive memory as was just described others claim they can not.

its up in the air at the moment

Thanks, I'm really appreciate the fact, that you personally are aware of this individual, and will be sure to seek the advice from an actual technician, as for the for the 05's computer, I suppose that until its determinded one way or the other..we can assume that its best to make certain, that you have a reputable technician. who knows exactly what their doing, before having you're computer re-flashed, in order to avoid or take any chances, of causing any type of damages, to begin with.. And again, thanks for setting the record straight, about this guy..

 

[bat24]

According to [email protected], Ford doesn't have an actual black box, compared to what GM installs in their vehicles..I'm not really sure what Ford calls thier device, but it doesn't store or record info. in the same way as GM's meaning that with GM's..there is no way of getting around their setup..However with Ford's, there is a way.. First, you return you're vehicle back to stock programming, Second, disconnect the negative battery terminal. Third, after an hour.. reconnect the battery. and finally make sure to drive at least 50 miles or so, before taking you're vehicle in for service..If you follow each step, you should be able to get around it, without Ford knowing as to whether or not, you made any changes...Anyway, hope this helps.. also look at it this way..whenever you take you're vehicle in for service..Ford ends up re-flashing you're computer, each and every time any factory repair work is performed, so how could they really prove who did the actual re-flash anyhow and when ?? just a thought..

I stand corrected

 

[06GTVERT4DE]

As for the 05 computer no one currently knows for SURE if they can detect it some for techs i know claim they can even if you clear the above keep alive memory as was just described others claim they can not.

OK, I agree with you on all of this, but how are you going to explain the CAI that you installed? Everyone knows you must reflash before using an aftermarket CAI. So, are you going to re-install the factory air system as well? For what it't worth, I just installed a JLT CAI and reflashed my 06 with only 800 miles on it. I figure, what's a warranty worth if I am not happy with the performance of the car (especially shift points of automatic tranny). I am much happier now!

 

[Pliskin]

The computer in the car uses codes. They use it to diag the vehicle and the such when its taken in. They have codes for check engine lights, over reving, unconnected batterys, almost anything. They even have a code for tampering with the ECU. The master technician at my work says even if I reset it to stock it'll still hold the code for tampering with it. If I disconnect the battery he showed me the code it comes up for that. We have many cars come in (mainly the turbo diesels) with programmers that get their entire warranties voided because they end up blowing their engines or turbos or many other things. Literally he said he hooks it up to the computer and down the list of components it just lists VOID VOID VOID VOID.

However, one of the other techs says that I just reset it, unplug the battery, and drive for the 50 miles. (Of course put the stock intake back in). So I'm still up in the air with this. I think its a risk I'm willing to take.

 

[CorralOne]

Been a tech for ford for last 14 years.As long as the tune itself does'nt leave a code there is no way we can tell if its been changed.Resetting,over rev,and speed limmit reached are stored but can be erased just by disconnecting the battery for 5-10 mins.If asked why the battery was disconnected just say you left the dome light on.they cant prove otherwise.

 

[TGJ]

No, the dealer cannot determine whether a handheld tuner was used if the car was returned to the stock tune.

 

[litlsi]

Been a tech for ford for last 14 years.As long as the tune itself does'nt leave a code there is no way we can tell if its been changed.Resetting,over rev,and speed limmit reached are stored but can be erased just by disconnecting the battery for 5-10 mins.If asked why the battery was disconnected just say you left the dome light on.they cant prove otherwise.

Thank you for adding your 2 cents here.. Straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).

Much appreciated.

 

[red05bullitgt]

Been a tech for ford for last 14 years.As long as the tune itself does'nt leave a code there is no way we can tell if its been changed.Resetting,over rev,and speed limmit reached are stored but can be erased just by disconnecting the battery for 5-10 mins.If asked why the battery was disconnected just say you left the dome light on.they cant prove otherwise.

What if afterwards, the trouble code left by the tune, is removed by the handheld tuner ? ie..if the tune causes a check engine light to come, or if the wrong tuner file was downloaded, So my question is.. once the tuner is able to troubleshoot the problem, along with the code, then is able to remove it..Will the code still be in the computer ? and will Ford still be able to tell, if any changes were done ??

 

[TGJ]

What if afterwards, the trouble code left by the tune, is removed by the handheld tuner ? ie..if the tune causes a check engine light to come, or if the wrong tuner file was downloaded, So my question is.. once the tuner is able to troubleshoot the problem, along with the code, then is able to remove it..Will the code still be in the computer ? and will Ford still be able to tell, if any changes were done ??

SCT, Superchips and Diablo are all capable of clearing the codes. Once cleared from the car's computer, the code is gone. Ford won't be able to tell.

 

[CorralOne]

TGJ is right once cleared there is no way to tell.The code left after the clear is P1000,that just means that all the monitors have to go through a drive cycle to clear the P1000.That can take from 10-100 miles or more depending on how you drive.

I would'nt worry about it much.The dealerships alone dont have the power to void the warrenty.This only happens when a ford inspector is called out for a strange failure and is discovered the owner has modified something.Most dealers dont really care if the mods are kept to a minimum.

 

[Pro Mod]

Well I'm about to find out on Thursday. I gotta get some warranty work done (my rearend is moaning BAD and I have a rattle in both my doors). I just removed my JLT CAI & reflashed back to stock. My Steeda pulleys are still on though; I didn't want to go through that again just for warranty work... figured I'll just take my chance with them.

Cross your fingers for me fellas!

 

[Razinhell]

Do note they don't void a warranty, they refuse service on the vehicle. All states are different in the amount of coverage and what a dealer can and cannot do. Think of it this way: You put a supercharger on you car and blow the engine, its obvious that the dealer isn't going to warranty your car because the blower can be the cause of the problem. But if your Driver side window motor doesn't work any more, you still have a warranty. There is a big difference between refusal of service and voiding.

SEMA has a lot of stuff on warranties.
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128
Magnason-Moss Warranty Act
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=61713

 

[05 GeeTee]

Do they really worry about if you've messed with the tune? Mabe if you bring it in for drivablity problems or something unexplainable happend. For usual crap like strut popping noise, radio, rattles, gas tank issues, I doubt they even think about hooking it up to a computer.

I brought my car in for the strut popping noise (2x's) they didn't update any PCM code or revision. There was a few other TSB's they could have checked and offered to do but not a word. Heck, I had to tell them about the TSB for the stuts. They knew nothing about it.

If your really want a tune and are that scared. Couldn't you just get another PCM hook it up and do what ever you want leaving you PCM untouched? If you're really that nervouse about it.

 

[NorthwestGT]

My 2 cents: I've put mods, first in my '96. All kinds of stuff. Most of it visible, and some of it actually installed by my Friendly Ford Dealer (gears). I have a bunch of stuff, including an SCT tune and a very visible CAI that I bought at that same dealership in my '05, and in nearly ten years I have never had any arguments about warranty repairs. In fact, I need to go in for a small leak in my brake fluid reservoir around the cap. I don't expect any problems because that has nothing to do with the CAI or the tune. Sure, if you try to get them to repair a blown bottom end and you've got a nitrous bottle, drag slicks, etc....I would agree with them that is not going to be a warranty repair from normal use. It's a matter of common sense and judgment. Also, I wouldn't expect my dealer to repair my CAI or underdrives. They didn't come with the car.

 

[haneymotorsport]

If your really want a tune and are that scared. Couldn't you just get another PCM hook it up and do what ever you want leaving you PCM untouched? If you're really that nervouse about it.

I am not sure on the new spanish oak processor, but the earlier Fords, you cannot change/ swap the ecm with out reflashing the entire system. The ecm, cluster and PATS (if equip)must communicate with each other. If not....no start...just crank. This is all done with the WDS, which links with Ford. I am sure Corralone can expand more on this.

 

[red05bullitgt]

SCT, Superchips and Diablo are all capable of clearing the codes. Once cleared from the car's computer, the code is gone. Ford won't be able to tell.

Both CorralOne and yourself, have been very helpful...Thanks very much, for all you're support..