Long Tubes a waste on N/A cars.

mogs01gt · Feb 25, 2004

you should get that fixed. Forgot about buying mods for a few months and repair that.

Silverpony00 · Feb 25, 2004

Peak numbers are worthless to a certain extent. The power curve is what matters. Who gives a crap that you dynoed 4hp less than Mustang92(Bill), have you ever heard of different weather conditions? Post your graphs and then we will get Bill to post his. His power curve will blow yours out of the water and im sure his weather conditions are worse than yours.

muzztangman · Feb 25, 2004

off topic: anyone know if LT's are smog legal in california??

Beau · Feb 25, 2004

no they aren't legal here in cali.

if they were, i'd be running a set of JBA's right now

68 & 00 GT · Feb 25, 2004

MustangLife said:
You have jet hot long tubes and a pro-m and I don't, but your only dynoing 5 rwhp more than me. I'm puting down 256 rwhp and 302 torque. Now how can you justify to me that your expensive coated long tubes and jet hot x-pipe are worth the money over my exhaust. Do you realize you got 5 hp more for a ton of money.
Josh

well I guess you have it all figured out. Don't buy them then. You should have started a thread that say.
"DON'T BUY LONG TUBES BECAUSE IN MY OPINION THEY ARE NO GOOD AND NOT WORTH THE MONEY OR TROUBLE"

on a lighter noter let me explain all my dynos to you.
My baseline dyno with nothing but welded in flows
235.6 RWHP in a Houston summer. (SAE)

I added a Magnaflow catback, Magnaflow X pipe w/ cats, Pro-M 77mm MAF, BBK pullies, and Anderson CAI ANother trip to the dyno
248.3 again in a Houston summer, and SAE.

I added my long tubes, and off road X pipe, and got a dyno tuned Autologic chip, and dynoed 261 SAE in a Houston July. And yes that's only a 13 RWHP increase I know, but I also had 373 gears since the last dyno which commonly shows as a ~5 RWHP decrease on a dyno. So I added it back in to get 18. Think that's BS I don't care. But my car feels a lot stronger since I added them. Peak RWHP isn't everything anyway as other have mentioned. It's always hot down here, so my dyno numbers aren't quite as impressive as you yankees With DR's I should run ~ 13.2 or so how 'bout you ? I have also planned to get a s/c from the day I bought my car so I'll get my use out of them.
So don't get them - Not like I'm making, or loosing any money
from you. Your loss Never did see your RWHP, or ET's

By the way how does your raspy @$$ exhaust sound ? I know how that combo sounds.
Come down here to do a dyno in 97 degree heat - can't whoop me.

FRPP 4.10
VRS Off-Road X-Pipe
2 Chamber Flowmasters
Diablo-Sport Chip Dyno Tuned
Steeda U/D Pulleys
Densecharger Full Length Cold Air Intake
Hypertech 160 Thermostat
Nitto 275-40-17 Extreme Drags
Eibach Sportline Springs
lakewood 90/10 Struts
Rear Seat Delete Kit
Front Sway Bar Delete
X2C Upper and Lower Control Arms
Kenny Brown Super-Subs
31 Spline Moser Axles
31 Spline FRPP Traction-

Ryan L · Feb 25, 2004

Well its a fact that LTs only give you ~5rwhp at peak, but the most important thing is total area under the dyno curve. This is similar to the Vortech vs. Kenne Bell argument. Both basic kits seem to net 375-400 rwhp, but the Kenne Bell has so much more HP at the lower RPMs (torque) so numbers are deceiving. I had a set of LTs sitting in my garage and I decided getting 5rwhp at peak wasn't worth the $1000 (parts and labor). I sold the LTs and bought an NX kit. I went to the track and gained 10 mph.

Some people would rather gain 2 mph as opposed to 10 mph. Not sure why. I prefer 10 mph.

MrE-Man · Feb 25, 2004

MustangLife said:
Can anyone honestly say, anything I've said in this thread or post is a lie.

Yes.

Daves4.6GT · Feb 26, 2004

Does anyone notice, all the guys that Say LTs dont yield any gains......Dont have them......I allready had an Xpipe and flowmasters, and I installed my MAC LTs and felt ATLEAST 15 rwhp It made a good bit of diffrence......It has been the best bang for the buck mod I have put on my car.....payed $275 for them brand new.... no problems at all..Dave

LS2 KLR · Feb 26, 2004

I paid $648 with tax for my long tubes and x pipe. I dynoed my car before and after. I gained exactly 20rwhp and 8rwtq over a Bassani x pipe on my stock motor!

GinoGT · Feb 26, 2004

MustangLife said:
Well I have a bent 2-3 shift fork. And its slow engaging 3rd, i kinda have to manipulate it, if you will. That might be it.

Josh

mogs01gt · Feb 26, 2004

Ryan L said:
Well its a fact that LTs only give you ~5rwhp at peak, but the most important thing is total area under the dyno curve. This is similar to the Vortech vs. Kenne Bell argument. Both basic kits seem to net 375-400 rwhp, but the Kenne Bell has so much more HP at the lower RPMs (torque) so numbers are deceiving. I had a set of LTs sitting in my garage and I decided getting 5rwhp at peak wasn't worth the $1000 (parts and labor). I sold the LTs and bought an NX kit. I went to the track and gained 10 mph.

Some people would rather gain 2 mph as opposed to 10 mph. Not sure why. I prefer 10 mph.

1000 dollars for headers? You would have got ripped off BIG time if you paid that. Hell I'll do it for 800

2000GT · Feb 26, 2004

68 & 00 GT said:
well I guess you have it all figured out. Don't buy them then. You should have started a thread that say.
"DON'T BUY LONG TUBES BECAUSE IN MY OPINION THEY ARE NO GOOD AND NOT WORTH THE MONEY OR TROUBLE"

on a lighter noter let me explain all my dynos to you.
My baseline dyno with nothing but welded in flows
235.6 RWHP in a Houston summer. (SAE)

I added a Magnaflow catback, Magnaflow X pipe w/ cats, Pro-M 77mm MAF, BBK pullies, and Anderson CAI ANother trip to the dyno
248.3 again in a Houston summer, and SAE.

I added my long tubes, and off road X pipe, and got a dyno tuned Autologic chip, and dynoed 261 SAE in a Houston July. And yes that's only a 13 RWHP increase I know, but I also had 373 gears since the last dyno which commonly shows as a ~5 RWHP decrease on a dyno. So I added it back in to get 18. Think that's BS I don't care. But my car feels a lot stronger since I added them. Peak RWHP isn't everything anyway as other have mentioned. It's always hot down here, so my dyno numbers aren't quite as impressive as you yankees With DR's I should run ~ 13.2 or so how 'bout you ? I have also planned to get a s/c from the day I bought my car so I'll get my use out of them.
So don't get them - Not like I'm making, or loosing any money
from you. Your loss Never did see your RWHP, or ET's

By the way how does your raspy @$$ exhaust sound ? I know how that combo sounds.
Come down here to do a dyno in 97 degree heat - can't whoop me.

FRPP 4.10
VRS Off-Road X-Pipe
2 Chamber Flowmasters
Diablo-Sport Chip Dyno Tuned
Steeda U/D Pulleys
Densecharger Full Length Cold Air Intake
Hypertech 160 Thermostat
Nitto 275-40-17 Extreme Drags
Eibach Sportline Springs
lakewood 90/10 Struts
Rear Seat Delete Kit
Front Sway Bar Delete
X2C Upper and Lower Control Arms
Kenny Brown Super-Subs
31 Spline Moser Axles
31 Spline FRPP Traction-

You say you added an Autologic chip at the same time you added your LT's. You never tuned your car prior to the longtubes and you made 248.3 rwhp SAE. You could have just tuned your car without the LT's and you would have been pretty close to your 260 number with an aggressive tune. My car gained 8 rwhp from air/fuel ratio tweaks and timing adjustments. You didn't really gain 13 rwhp. from just the LT's. You tuned it as well. Big difference.

Also, you clearly don't understand what SAE corrected numbers are. It doesn't matter that you dynoed your car on a hot day. The SAE correction factor will account for that. Your correction factor on a hot day is likely above 1.00. Take your uncorrected results and multiply them against your correction factor for SAE numbers. Likewise, dyno a cold day (more power, dense air, etc.) and your correction factor will likely be below 1.00.

Example: when you dyno a car in cool weather, the Dynojet software may produce a correction factor of 0.97. In other words, SAE rwhp was only 97% of the uncorrected number due to the cool weather. So if SAE was 260, uncorrected was 268. The car made 268 that day under those conditions. It likely won't produce 268 on a hot day. But for comparison purposes across the world, SAE was created to make more variables consistent.

As far as gear swaps causing your car to lose power, that's a new one for me.

MustangLife · Feb 26, 2004

mogs01gt wrote

you should get that fixed. Forgot about buying mods for a few months and repair that.

I plan on it sometime. The car is still driveable and pretty much raceable, it just slows me down some. The reason I haven't gotten the tranny torn down is. I plan on a tko since i race. And I know the 3650 will just tear up again. So its alittle pricy to go the tko route, but it would be worth it.

Josh

Mustang92 · Feb 26, 2004

MustangLife said:
mogs01gt wrote

Well I have a bent 2-3 shift fork. And its slow engaging 3rd, i kinda have to manipulate it, if you will. That might be it.

Josh

Sorry but shift forks can't bend they can only break or crack it's one or the other.

Mustang92 was only making 260rwhp before his cams. With his Mac Long tubes and a maf. Which is 4 rwhp more than me.

Actually I made 267RWHP and the MAF made zero diffference on the dyno I had swapped back and forth from the stock one to the C&L and Pro-M no difference. Also if you haven't learned this year peak numbers don't always tell the story the curve is what matters. My car picked up 2 MPH and lost 2 tenths with the useless longtubes, I'm about as consistant a driver you'll find anywhere. But hey if you want to keep telling yourself that longtubes are useless you keep doing that and we won't let anyone ruin your little secret.

As far as gear swaps causing your car to lose power, that's a new one for me.

The car doesn't lose power but the dyno numbers are affected by the steeper gear ratio.

Bill

mogs01gt · Feb 26, 2004

yeah all these threads of MAFs and Im glad I got mine for 100 bucks.

Yellow01GT · Feb 26, 2004

Another idiot putting misleading,wrong information out there....

Ryan L · Feb 26, 2004

mogs01gt said:
1000 dollars for headers? You would have got ripped off BIG time if you paid that. Hell I'll do it for 800

$600 for LTs, mid-pipe, gaskets, etc. Most places wanted $300-400 to install. Sucks. I didn't have the time to install LTs myself, but I did the NX kit myself.

And all of this MAF talk reminds me.... BUY MY 80mm C&L!

mogs01gt · Feb 26, 2004

600 for LTs?? rip off.

LS2 KLR · Feb 26, 2004

mogs01gt said:
1000 dollars for headers? You would have got ripped off BIG time if you paid that. Hell I'll do it for 800

I paid $1150 on parts and labor, including dyno pulls to test before and after. I did find a guy who would install them for $200 but it sounded too good to be true so I was nervous. I later found out more about this guy and a few weeks later he built/installed my new shortblock

5111 · Feb 26, 2004

Here's proof

This should solve the problem. Here is my dyno sheet of before and after headers. NO OTHER CHANGES WERE MADE. Everything on the car is the same as before. Only change is headers. I went from high-flow to high-flow. All on the stock computer. Both sets of numbers are SAE. Remember, you are not looking at the final number as much as the difference between the two ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD.

I agree with this guy to a certain extent. LT's are an expensive mod. But they are NOT a waste of money on a NA engine.

Long Tubes a waste on N/A cars.

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