Looking for opinions on potential power output and ideas

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FanoftheFox

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So I've always loved foxbody mustangs and finally have the means to have a small hobby/fun car. Keeping a lookout for a notchback really but would take any except a convertible... Too heavy... And not an auto..i did pick up an engine to put into whatever I end up with.. .I've been searching and feel like I've got an idea on what it could make, but I'm curious to hear opinions from experienced members on my exact planned combo. So I've just finished up re-ringing a 91 5.0 engine(458k moly ring kit) and new bearings.. this is definitely a budget build, or as much as possible anyway. I've put the factory HO cam back in and was planning to reuse it with 1.7/1.72 rr's.. pretty set on splurging on 170cc sve aluminum heads and LT's definitely.. haven't decided much on intakes.. was planning on at least gt40 stuff. Do you guys think with a tuned ecm I could make 330hp? Plan on putting a spool and 4.10's or maybe 3.73's.. would love to be able to get in the upper 12's with some weight reduction and 275's.. what do yall think? Talking crank power numbers.. and do you guys have any insight on what intake would get me closest to my goals? Thanks in advance
 
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79 Fox

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I'm making roughly 300 crank with an '89 5.0 HO, GT40Ps (unported) Edel Performer intake, B303, 1.72 rocker arms, unequal length shorty headers, x pipe, Holley 600cfm carb, dual electric fan, no A/C. I'd imagine that you could very easily make 330 crank with the aforementioned parts, EFI stuff and a tune. (Maybe performer RPM instead of standard performer, long tube headers) I have no clue what times you'd run, but you'll have a damn fun time with the car. I may be biased, but I'd look for a four eye car. significantly lighter. (I'm at around 2,700 pounds with some fair weight reduction)
 
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a91what

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nope, not yet....

you could just add a turbo to it..... dont buy heads or anything and just add boost.....


no i am not kidding.
 

a91what

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yeah... non of that fancy stuff is needed man, the factory rotating assembly will do just fine. I have seen guys pull 5.0 explorer engines out of the JY and do just a cam swap then turbo them. No forged internals or pistons needed, just a decent tune. If you are putting a forged rotating assembly in a factory block your wasting your money.
 
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FanoftheFox

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Those mods and power numbers are encouraging 79fox. I do like the 4eyed stangs alot.. was just kinda leaning towards efi bc I wanna daily drive one, one day. Was thinking if I get a carb I'd wanna do a Holley sniper type of deal. I know the blocks split at around 480-500 NA hp.. and that's pretty much why I wouldn't spend money on a forged assembly.. Not for my purpose anyway..I do like the fact that I have factory forged pistons tho.. but that's why I just honed the bores and slapped everything back together. (Did measure everything.. rings, bottom end, end play etc) everything is in allowable spec still. I'm not just gonna build it and be done with it.. im interested in an on3 turbo kit down the road, but to start I'm gonna leave it Na.. with gears a spool and 5 speed. I just wanted to get some power estimates as it seems like between here and other forums that Google pulls up.. the power numbers are ALL over the place. So it's hard to know what's accurate? I'm definitely spending money on heads tho and after more research I don't think I'll be able to pull the trigger on those sve heads. I'm thinking for 600 more bucks I could put afr165's on and not have to worry about wasted potential.. consensus seems to be that those are top notch. Keeping the factory cam for now is one of my cost saving measures plus I don't want it to be a ground pounder.. More estimates are welcome
 

a91what

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The trickflow 170 heads are a great deal and make in the 300+ range with a small cam. (Others will chime in but I think those numbers are at the tire). The afr heads are very nice as well.
 

79 Fox

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I've read really good things about the 11r heads. Also, FanoftheFox, the Sniper EFI seems awesome, and I'm considering one for later. (Being a 15 year old driver, I didn't want too much power or a stick, so in a year or two I'll be building a healthy 347 and T5 trans to slap in my car. Planning to break 400 horsepower.)
 

FanoftheFox

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Those seem to be the two that get the highest praise straight out of the box.. the tf and the afr's. I read that the trickflows can't be used with stock pistons without modifying the pistons. That's the reason I say afr's.. not looking to into anything "custom-ish"
 

FastDriver

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yeah... non of that fancy stuff is needed man, the factory rotating assembly will do just fine. I have seen guys pull 5.0 explorer engines out of the JY and do just a cam swap then turbo them. No forged internals or pistons needed, just a decent tune. If you are putting a forged rotating assembly in a factory block your wasting your money.
Yep. Your thoughts are right in line with mine. It's really the economical way to get to 500, aside from a lot of nitrous. I honestly wouldn't even do the cam. I would have to do a bit of research on valve springs and roller rockers. I believe they are needed at higher boost, but you can get to 500 on the stock cam and GT40 parts. We're talking in the neighborhood of 15-18 psi here. So an intercooled system is a must. Expect to lift the heads with stock bolts. I'd do the springs, head studs, rockers, and gaskets together. Or, I'd just slap it in there and do it after it blows white smoke, lol.
 
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FastDriver

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Here's an example: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b9ul1g-ROU


Per his comments:
GT40P heads (explorer)
Explorer intake
No porting
Trickflow springs
does not mention rockers
Master Power 70mm Turbo with a .68 A/R Turbine housing(I've never heard anything but good stuff about this affordable turbo if you can still find one. It would be my first choice on a stock block.)
539rwhp /602 rwtq Mustang dyno
15.5 psi/16* timing claimed. I was skeptical and then even more so because he mentioned boost spiking issues, but it's conceivable at that boost, I suppose.
Backed up with a [email protected] mph.

Turbos are just easy peasy power.
 

a91what

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I believe it, I like to let the boost make the power. Around 16* is about as low as I retard the timing, unless I have a really good head or high compression. Or much higher boost.
 

FastDriver

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Yeah, I was thinking that was pretty conservative for iron heads. The tuner on the black car called it good at 16* up over 20psi on pump gas, but that's with apparently very efficient AFR205s. GT40Ps want a lot more, I'd guess. I mean, I guess why push your luck? Timing will get you in trouble sooner than boost. I'd wanna dial back the torque (timing around peak torque) that thing is making and keep it under 5500 rpm. Says he revs it out to 6300. Maybe that was just on the dyno.
 

a91what

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Not to derail too far but..... the iron heads hold more heat in the cylinder, so you cant get away with timing and compression like you can with an equivalent aluminum head. I pull more timing on an iron headed engine for that reason.
 
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FanoftheFox

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So I've still been looking, can't help myself, but I've read about as many threads online as I can. Really interested in finding out more info on the tf 170cc 11R heads.. someone mentioned up above. Would those bolt-on out of the box to my factory short block? I didn't see any "piston modification required" notes on them.. Also 53cc combustion chamber.. will that be pump gas friendly ? Wouldn't that be close to 11:1? Could I use a thick enough gasket to keep it at 10:1?
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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So I've still been looking, can't help myself, but I've read about as many threads online as I can. Really interested in finding out more info on the tf 170cc 11R heads.. someone mentioned up above. Would those bolt-on out of the box to my factory short block? I didn't see any "piston modification required" notes on them.. Also 53cc combustion chamber.. will that be pump gas friendly ? Wouldn't that be close to 11:1? Could I use a thick enough gasket to keep it at 10:1?
The head comes in two chamber sizes, with either a 56, or 66 cc chamber respectively. if you really are interested in finding out more info on those heads, you'd stop wasting your time reading online threads, and do a simple google search like I just did to find out manufacturer specific information, instead of relying on opinions from people who may or may not know what they are talking about.
These heads are a twisted valve head. Depending on the camshaft you use, piston to valve clearance becomes a potential issue because the valves may not clear because they will not line up with the factory valve reliefs that are in the Pistons.

I wish I had the benefit of a collective forum of older guys like this place has when I was a kid. Instead, I had my circle of stupid friends, and I was just as stupid right along with them . We all plodded along, wasting money trying to get 69 mustangs into the 12's back in the day where there were no heads other than what came on the car, and 14 second quarter miles were typical.

I also wish that Chinese turbo kits were available back then too.

You can buy those heads. Spend 1700.00 on the pair, and until you upgrade the intake, camshaft, and add headers, only realize a 35 hp increase over stock. And after you spend another 1500-2000 on the above mentioned stuff, actually be able to realize the 50-60 hp they’ll give you over the stock heads. And after spending close to 4000 maybe you’ll see 300-330 total horsepower.

Or, you can take the advice you’ve been given by a couple of guys that have already “been there, and done that”, and instead of wasting your money on heads, a cam, intake, and headers,....spend 1600 from LRS on the On3 system that you claim is in your future plans now, and make 350-375.

Seems pretty simple to me.......Spend 4000 to make 300 hp and tear the whole engine apart to do that, or leave the whole thing intact, and BOLT ON. 350 hp for less than half that...Even a caveman can turn a wrench.

The 11r heads will force a piston change at some future point, twist the valves out of their standard relationship with the valve reliefs the factory pistons have, and there’s gonna be some interference sooner or later. AFR heads cost the same, are similar in their power making potential, cost the same, and will never create a p2v issue.

And lastly, while I’m at it......time to go round and round in a circle.
A spool has no business on a street car, unless you want to have a “running off the street in the rain” street car. A spool has no business on a drag car with stock 28 spline axles, unless you figure out how you’re gonna hold them in the axle housing ( think...C clip eliminators). And C clip eliminators are a waste of money on a stock 28 spline axle. Remove the word “ spool” from your future stated plan, unless your “plan” is to have an aftermarket 31 spline axle, and never drive the car on the street.
 
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John Dirks Jr

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Wait...you guys are talking 500+ hp turbo applications with stock 302 blocks? Regardless of the internals, is that not about when they begin to split down the middle?
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Wait...you guys are talking 500+ hp turbo applications with stock 302 blocks? Regardless of the internals, is that not about when they begin to split down the middle?
Nope, I said 350-375 simply by adding the kit. The stock heads will be the choke point I'd imagine, and just because it'll go to 20 psi, doesn't make it right. A 5 pound spring on a stock block combo will still show more power than any HCI ever will, and be well within the limits of a 5.0.
 
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