Looking for opinions on potential power output and ideas

I'm making roughly 300 crank with an '89 5.0 HO, GT40Ps (unported) Edel Performer intake, B303, 1.72 rocker arms, unequal length shorty headers, x pipe, Holley 600cfm carb, dual electric fan, no A/C. I'd imagine that you could very easily make 330 crank with the aforementioned parts, EFI stuff and a tune. (Maybe performer RPM instead of standard performer, long tube headers) I have no clue what times you'd run, but you'll have a damn fun time with the car. I may be biased, but I'd look for a four eye car. significantly lighter. (I'm at around 2,700 pounds with some fair weight reduction)

Are we there yet?



Are we there yet?



Are we there yet?..........

nope, not yet....

you could just add a turbo to it..... dont buy heads or anything and just add boost.....


no i am not kidding.

I guess you could go the turbo route... If so,

yeah... non of that fancy stuff is needed man, the factory rotating assembly will do just fine. I have seen guys pull 5.0 explorer engines out of the JY and do just a cam swap then turbo them. No forged internals or pistons needed, just a decent tune. If you are putting a forged rotating assembly in a factory block your wasting your money.

Ok

The trickflow 170 heads are a great deal and make in the 300+ range with a small cam. (Others will chime in but I think those numbers are at the tire). The afr heads are very nice as well.

I've read really good things about the 11r heads. Also, FanoftheFox, the Sniper EFI seems awesome, and I'm considering one for later. (Being a 15 year old driver, I didn't want too much power or a stick, so in a year or two I'll be building a healthy 347 and T5 trans to slap in my car. Planning to break 400 horsepower.)

a91what said:

yeah... non of that fancy stuff is needed man, the factory rotating assembly will do just fine. I have seen guys pull 5.0 explorer engines out of the JY and do just a cam swap then turbo them. No forged internals or pistons needed, just a decent tune. If you are putting a forged rotating assembly in a factory block your wasting your money.

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Yep. Your thoughts are right in line with mine. It's really the economical way to get to 500, aside from a lot of nitrous. I honestly wouldn't even do the cam. I would have to do a bit of research on valve springs and roller rockers. I believe they are needed at higher boost, but you can get to 500 on the stock cam and GT40 parts. We're talking in the neighborhood of 15-18 psi here. So an intercooled system is a must. Expect to lift the heads with stock bolts. I'd do the springs, head studs, rockers, and gaskets together. Or, I'd just slap it in there and do it after it blows white smoke, lol.

Here's an example: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b9ul1g-ROU


Per his comments:
GT40P heads (explorer)
Explorer intake
No porting
Trickflow springs
does not mention rockers
Master Power 70mm Turbo with a .68 A/R Turbine housing(I've never heard anything but good stuff about this affordable turbo if you can still find one. It would be my first choice on a stock block.)
539rwhp /602 rwtq Mustang dyno
15.5 psi/16* timing claimed. I was skeptical and then even more so because he mentioned boost spiking issues, but it's conceivable at that boost, I suppose.
Backed up with a 10.70@131 mph.

Turbos are just easy peasy power.

I believe it, I like to let the boost make the power. Around 16* is about as low as I retard the timing, unless I have a really good head or high compression. Or much higher boost.

Yeah, I was thinking that was pretty conservative for iron heads. The tuner on the black car called it good at 16* up over 20psi on pump gas, but that's with apparently very efficient AFR205s. GT40Ps want a lot more, I'd guess. I mean, I guess why push your luck? Timing will get you in trouble sooner than boost. I'd wanna dial back the torque (timing around peak torque) that thing is making and keep it under 5500 rpm. Says he revs it out to 6300. Maybe that was just on the dyno.

Not to derail too far but..... the iron heads hold more heat in the cylinder, so you cant get away with timing and compression like you can with an equivalent aluminum head. I pull more timing on an iron headed engine for that reason.

FanoftheFox said:

So I've still been looking, can't help myself, but I've read about as many threads online as I can. Really interested in finding out more info on the tf 170cc 11R heads.. someone mentioned up above. Would those bolt-on out of the box to my factory short block? I didn't see any "piston modification required" notes on them.. Also 53cc combustion chamber.. will that be pump gas friendly ? Wouldn't that be close to 11:1? Could I use a thick enough gasket to keep it at 10:1?

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The head comes in two chamber sizes, with either a 56, or 66 cc chamber respectively. if you really are interested in finding out more info on those heads, you'd stop wasting your time reading online threads, and do a simple google search like I just did to find out manufacturer specific information, instead of relying on opinions from people who may or may not know what they are talking about.
These heads are a twisted valve head. Depending on the camshaft you use, piston to valve clearance becomes a potential issue because the valves may not clear because they will not line up with the factory valve reliefs that are in the Pistons.

I wish I had the benefit of a collective forum of older guys like this place has when I was a kid. Instead, I had my circle of stupid friends, and I was just as stupid right along with them . We all plodded along, wasting money trying to get 69 mustangs into the 12's back in the day where there were no heads other than what came on the car, and 14 second quarter miles were typical.

I also wish that Chinese turbo kits were available back then too.

You can buy those heads. Spend 1700.00 on the pair, and until you upgrade the intake, camshaft, and add headers, only realize a 35 hp increase over stock. And after you spend another 1500-2000 on the above mentioned stuff, actually be able to realize the 50-60 hp they’ll give you over the stock heads. And after spending close to 4000 maybe you’ll see 300-330 total horsepower.

Or, you can take the advice you’ve been given by a couple of guys that have already “been there, and done that”, and instead of wasting your money on heads, a cam, intake, and headers,....spend 1600 from LRS on the On3 system that you claim is in your future plans now, and make 350-375.

Seems pretty simple to me.......Spend 4000 to make 300 hp and tear the whole engine apart to do that, or leave the whole thing intact, and BOLT ON. 350 hp for less than half that...Even a caveman can turn a wrench.

The 11r heads will force a piston change at some future point, twist the valves out of their standard relationship with the valve reliefs the factory pistons have, and there’s gonna be some interference sooner or later. AFR heads cost the same, are similar in their power making potential, cost the same, and will never create a p2v issue.

And lastly, while I’m at it......time to go round and round in a circle.
A spool has no business on a street car, unless you want to have a “running off the street in the rain” street car. A spool has no business on a drag car with stock 28 spline axles, unless you figure out how you’re gonna hold them in the axle housing ( think...C clip eliminators). And C clip eliminators are a waste of money on a stock 28 spline axle. Remove the word “ spool” from your future stated plan, unless your “plan” is to have an aftermarket 31 spline axle, and never drive the car on the street.

Wait...you guys are talking 500+ hp turbo applications with stock 302 blocks? Regardless of the internals, is that not about when they begin to split down the middle?

John Dirks Jr said:

Wait...you guys are talking 500+ hp turbo applications with stock 302 blocks? Regardless of the internals, is that not about when they begin to split down the middle?

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Nope, I said 350-375 simply by adding the kit. The stock heads will be the choke point I'd imagine, and just because it'll go to 20 psi, doesn't make it right. A 5 pound spring on a stock block combo will still show more power than any HCI ever will, and be well within the limits of a 5.0.