My car is a slug, I'm out of ideas

[svtpower]

Just bought this 87 LX, it has 3.73s in it, flowmaster mufflers and an offroad h.

It has some VERY bald tires and I can't break them lose without reving her up first. If I punch it from a roll, same thing, total lack of torque. The car seems to hesitate when giving it gas after shifting. On the highway it seems to pull pretty good, it's the low end where there is some hesitation and lack of torque.

I bought it because it was spotless so I guess it's not the end of the world if the engine is junk but just can't figure it out.

Things I have done:

Pulled codes (none)
New fuel filter
New plugs (old plugs looked good)
New wires
New cap and rotor
New battery (old one barely started the car)
New air filter
Checked timing with a timing light and verified distributor position with #1 cylinder
(Thanks BK_CAULEY )

Other info about the car.

Has brand new looking bright red motor mounts

Bolts for the upper intake have marks like they have been removed at some point.

New different water pump (my March pulley won't fit it, the 4 holes don't line up)

Stamping on lower intake is RF-E6SE-9K461-D3A Which if I'm not mistaken means it's an 86 Tbird number?


Strange looking alternator

Is this not a Mustang engine or something?

 

[daleclough]

Okay, we know what doesn't happen... what does happen when you rev in 1st and try to break the tires loose?

Does the engine bog? Do you get a lurch then fall flat?

 

[Mustang5L5]

Those are the correct Mustang parts. They used the E6 lower intake until 1989 or so. The upper intake was changed so if you took the 5.0 HO plaque off, you should see an E7 part number.

That alternator is the original 1987 65Amp alt. The automatic cars got a 75Amp. In 1988, all the cars got the 75amp.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

check the timing.

 

[svtpower]

Thanks

Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate them.

What does happen? Well, it's just gutless. I can't even chirp second gear in this car

On the highway if I am at like 3k or better and mash the throttle it feels about right though, pushes me back in my seat like I would expect. I am doing 2400RPMS in 5th at 70mph so that sounds like 3.73s to me.

It was popping out the tailpipe and once or twice it sounded like out the intake alittle on the 1-2 shift before I changed all the stuff I listed. It also stalled out at a few stop lights after highway driving. Now it's not doing that stuff after my tune up, it's still hesitating. It's not like a delay but the power just isn't there, the revs climb quickly with the 3.73s but the torque just feels weak.

Am I lean somehow? All I smell is raw gas with this offroad H.


I had a bone stock 88 LX with 2.73s a few years ago (sold it ) and it seemed more jumpy off the line than this car.

If I slowly let out the clutch and don't give it any gas, it stalls out. When I did that on my 88 it pulled itself forward like it was rarren to go.

The plugs were all very clean, almost dry looking when I pulled them.

After a 4 hour car ride home though I stunk so bad of raw gas, my eyes were burning. I Didn't know offroad Hs were that bad. That thing has to go too.

I guess bottom line is, I can't burn the tires off the line, from a roll or even chirp second. When I shift into second it's kinda jerky even with a good clean shift almost like I was tapping the gas pedal for a split second instead of pushing it down.

Oh and I already checked the TPS. It was .87 I set it to .99, no change in behavior though.

*EDIT* I checked timing with a timing light and it was almost exactly 10deg.

Also my temp gauge never reads above the 2nd to the bottom line. According to the gauge this car never even gets warm.

 

[93 LX]

How did you check the timing? You did remove the sprout connector? Does it even have one to begin with? You mentioned you pulled codes and did not find anything. Was this a KOEO and KOER tests? Did you do a cylinder balance test? YOu could have a weak injector and it would not show up in the KOER or KOEO tests. I did this and found one bad injector, replaced it and it really made a huge difference. BTW I did not have a miss I could hear or feel. Check your fuel pressure too.

 

[svtpower]

Thanks

Thanks. I did a KOEO, but it was the day after I put a new battery on so I will try codes again in a day or so.

I pulled the SPOUT connector when I checked the timing.

Cylinder balance test? Not sure how to go about doing that.

 

[93 LX]

After the KOER test is completed go in and rev the engine making sure you go to the floor. Just stab the gas pedal once. The ECC will run the Cylinder blance test. Count the number of flashes. 1 = Cylinder 1, 2 = cylinder 2 and so on. a 9 = all OK.

Good luck.

 

[jrichker]

Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a
jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start
the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then
quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed
2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about
1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each
injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors,
it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder
such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to
2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures.
Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is
weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop
manual for the complete test procedure

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire
or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter.
I’ve used it for years, and it works great.

See http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/

IF your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method.
There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of a test lamp.

Do a compression test on all the cylinders.
Take special note of any cylinder that shows up as weak in the cylinder
balance test. Low compression on one of these cylinders rules out the
injectors as being the most likely cause of the problem. Look at cylinders
that fail the cylinder balance test but have good compression. These
cylinders either have a bad injector, bad spark plug or spark plug wire.
Move the wire and then the spark plug to another cylinder and run the
cylinder balance test again. If it follows the moved wire or spark plug,
you have found the problem. If the same cylinder fails the test again,
the injector is bad. If different cylinders fail the cylinder balance test,
you have ignition problems or wiring problems in the 10 pin black &
white electrical connectors located by the EGR.

How to do a compression test:
Only use a compression tester with a screw in adapter for the spark
plug hole. The other type leaks too much to get an accurate reading.
Your local auto parts store may have a compression tester to rent.
If you do mechanic work on your own car on a regular basis, it would
be a good tool to add to your collection.

With the engine warmed up, remove all spark plugs and prop the
throttle wide open, crank the engine until it the gage reading stops
increasing. On a cold engine, it will be hard to tell what's good &
what's not. Some of the recent posts have numbers ranging from
140-170 psi. If the compression is low, squirt some oil in the cylinder
and do it again – if it comes up, the rings are worn. There should be
no more than 10% difference between cylinders. Use a blow down
leak test (puts compressed air inside cylinders) on cylinders that
have more than 10% difference.

See the link to my site for details on how to build your own blow
down type compression tester.

 

[svtpower]

So

So to end this thread, my car has about 200% more low end power than when I started.

- I replaced both O2 sensors with Bosch ones ($35 each)

- Installed a stainless steel Magnaflow catted H-pipe inplace of the offroad smeller pipe ($265 shipped new from performancepeddler)

- Changed out the Tstat for a 192deg one (it had a 180deg in it) ($8)

Resuts:

TONS more low end power, can now light them up from a roll no problem.

No more raw gas smell, no more black tailpipes, no more backfiring out of exhaust pipes at low rpms when under load.

Car warms up MUCH faster and temp gauge still reads pretty cool (it moved up about a quarter of a mark but gets there in about 5 minutes instead of 20 minutes)

My guess is because the car was running so cool it was hurting performance bigtime, that and every Mustang I have ever driven had much better throttle response and off idle torque with some cats.

Thanks to all posters for your help!

 

[Tasandmnm]

I think something was up with your old H pipe as well, you definitely should not have been smelling gas that strongly inside the car. I have ran a cat-less H and catless Pro-chamber and never gotten any gas smells like that.

 

[2FastLX]

I'm betting the O2's were pretty bad. My 90 was the same way until I changed them out. I wouldn't think an off-road h-pipe would cause anything like the conditions you had. Unless there was a squirrel nesting in the crossover

Also, have you tried advancing the timing a bit more? I only use a timing light to get it close. From there I advance in small increments and test drive after each adjustment to get it set the way I want it.

 

[svtpower]

yep

Yeah, I was betting those O2s were probably not in the best shape after 20 years.

I figured for the price it was a no-brainer. I can't get over how cheap 5.0 parts are. My last 2 stangs were modulars.

I did advance the timing with spout out to 14deg with a timing light. Still running 87 and no pinging even on an 85deg day! Seemed to help some too.