Fox Need Opinions On Upgrades

[Great88]

okay so comparing afr and trickflow does the price depict the difference in gains from what youve seen? is there room to grow for both of those sets in the future if i end up porting them way down the road when other mods have been completed and money allows. or would it be mandatory that i get them machined before i even put them on to notice significant gains compared to stock? as for the MAF swap im definitely going to check out my car and see if it has that already done or else im going to hopefully invest in that as well. After the heads would be added in your opinion what would be next? throttle body, intake, cam? im still learning so any help is awesome

 

[stykthyn]

If you're buying used, and I'm guessing with your budget you are, I would seriously have them looked at by a machine shop. I wouldn't port them.
Honestly this is just me, I would get everything I needed before doing an install. I have piles of parts in the back room. Just collect them until you are set and do it all at once.

 

[Great88]

If i were buying new though then i could go an do an install without anything else? And im guessing you saying dont port them is the way to say theyre good enough without it i would also love to stockpile a ton of parts but with the budget i always have at certain times money disappears fast and i rather get things done when i can than take years to do it

 

[mikestang63]

IMO you can shop around to try and save money or just get the TFS top end kit.

 

[A5literMan]

The tfs 170cc heads flow more than enough air to support plenty of power without touching them. They are the best/cheapest option I would use. They do come with 2 spring options...go with the spring upgrade version. That version is acceptable with most avg cams. These heads also have plenty of material to port if you ever need them to grow with you. The best bolt on head IMO is the newer TFS 11r designs. They have high quality valvetrain and make/support more power right out of the box. They do cost about 500$ more than the entry level head(1100$ vs 1600$)

The other best option is air flow research(AFR) 165cc heads. They are a great option for a stock shortblock but again there have been some spring issues in the past. They are a little weak for an aggressive cam profile. Neither is a problem for a stock cam or a semi mild cam profile(tfs 1,smaller comp cam profiles like 264hr/270hr are the best options for a stock shortblock IMO). They have smaller valves than the tfs options and are more limited in growing with you if you plan big upgrades in the future. They also offer 185cc version but the valve angle is an issue for piston to valve clearances with a stock shortblock.

If you do swap cams and add a better head/intake combo, you will need to switch to MAF. If you just add the heads,intake,etc but keep your stock cam, your SD computer should be fine.

I would buy a used intake(Eddelbrock rpmII,Holley systemaxII,Tfs track heat) all of these can be found for around 3-400$ in great/good condition. That would save you around 50% of new. The cheapest option is to check for an Explorer intake. They can be found in JY cheap(or buy one on eBay for around 200$-which is probably twice what you'd pay if you take it off yourself). Paired with a 65/70mm tb (depends on intake you get)and either of those heads above you'll see a significant power increase with stock like driveability. Add a cam and some proper upgrades(with the above options) you can add 100+hp.

 

[stykthyn]

Be prepared to have to do a maf conversion. I swapped heads and intake on my 87 and it didn't want to hold an idle. Popped/back fired, shook, ran liker crap. Did a jy maf swap and it ran like a top. Not saying yours will do this, but just keep it in mind as a possibility.

 

[Great88]

Okay so it looks like ill save a little more money up and get a set of the better trickflow heads i think. Otherwise ill probably get the cheaper set of trickflow heads. Now onto my next question once the heads are replaced and im looking at doing the intake. Any suggestions on that? And im going to assume that all aftermarket intakes require at least a 75mm throttle body? I feel like the cam can wait at this point but also suggestions there would be helpful for future reference. Will i need to change injectors or any other parts if im just doing the heads or will stock injectors be fine?

 

[A5literMan]

Re read my post please. I gave you intake,and cam recommendations. Also when shopping for the intake they specify which mm opening they have. Some are 70,75,and even 90 for the "race" intakes. When you get to that point(h/c/i parts acquired) you will then determine what you will need to do for the MAF/fuel system. If you convert to MAF you'll want an 80mm Pro-m meter,a good cold air intake(UPR or AFM power pipes),an upgraded fuel pump(190lph minimum),and 24-30#inj. That's the parts you'll need at that point. If you just add heads,intake,tb I'd try and see if the stock computer will work before swapping over. The stock inj should be able to handle that setup.

 

[stykthyn]

Okay so it looks like ill save a little more money up and get a set of the better trickflow heads i think. Otherwise ill probably get the cheaper set of trickflow heads. Now onto my next question once the heads are replaced and im looking at doing the intake. Any suggestions on that? And im going to assume that all aftermarket intakes require at least a 75mm throttle body? I feel like the cam can wait at this point but also suggestions there would be helpful for future reference. Will i need to change injectors or any other parts if im just doing the heads or will stock injectors be fine?

You've been given excellent advice by more than one member. If you are still confused, or just can't decide on what to do then the trick flow kit is your best bet. It's 90% of what you need to get the job done. If that doesn't float your boat then you need to get online and start doing research about the parts that interest you.

 

[cleanLX]

Maybe I missed it, but how is the car to be used?
If it's going to be a track toy and occasional weekend amusement driver, there may be a different recipe than if it's to be a cruiser and run about.

 

[Great88]

the car is going to be my summer car that ill cruise around in. a few quarter mile runs and what not. just all around enjoyable driver in the few good summer months we have over here

 

[cleanLX]

I was born in New Brunswick and lived there the first 32 years of my life, so I get the enjoying it while you can thing.
Based on your use, I'd say you got solid advice from the other members here.

 

[Great88]

and to list off what the build looks like so far and correct me if i miss or forget anything it looks like this:

Heads: tfs 170cc (or tfs 11r depending on budget)
Cam: tfs 1 (or a comps mild cam (264hr or 270hr). My question regarding these cams is i also want a little lumpy sound to it. will these fill that desire?
Intake:new or used (edelbrock rpm II, holley systemax II, tfs track heat). All of these seem good but do certain ones outperform the others?
MAF conversion: 80mm Pro M Meter
Cold Air Kit: UPR or AFM Power pipes. Im assuming re-using the apparent bbk cold air kit would not be a wise decision?
Fuel System: 190lph fuel pump and 24-30# injectors. Any superior brands for fuel pump and injectors or are they generic?
Throttle Body: Depends on which intake is chosen. researching the intakes and the holley systemax says it has a 72mm throttle body opening. Would both 70mm and 75mm work because it is rated in between the two sizes or is it a bigger is better scenario? Also any superior brands for throttle bodies or would BBK do just fine?
And im going to assume switching over computer systems would also be mandatory to an A9P system since its an automatic?

Let me know if im incorrect in anything or missed anything

 

[A5literMan]

and to list off what the build looks like so far and correct me if i miss or forget anything it looks like this:

Heads: tfs 170cc (or tfs 11r depending on budget)
Cam: tfs 1 (or a comps mild cam (264hr or 270hr). My question regarding these cams is i also want a little lumpy sound to it. will these fill that desire?
Intake:new or used (edelbrock rpm II, holley systemax II, tfs track heat). All of these seem good but do certain ones outperform the others?
MAF conversion: 80mm Pro M Meter
Cold Air Kit: UPR or AFM Power pipes. Im assuming re-using the apparent bbk cold air kit would not be a wise decision?
Fuel System: 190lph fuel pump and 24-30# injectors. Any superior brands for fuel pump and injectors or are they generic?
Throttle Body: Depends on which intake is chosen. researching the intakes and the holley systemax says it has a 72mm throttle body opening. Would both 70mm and 75mm work because it is rated in between the two sizes or is it a bigger is better scenario? Also any superior brands for throttle bodies or would BBK do just fine?
And im going to assume switching over computer systems would also be mandatory to an A9P system since its an automatic?

Let me know if im incorrect in anything or missed anything

Those cams have a good lope to them. You'll definetly be able to tell there is a cam installed. Lol. They also are fairly mild in that you will not effect power brakes,idle decently etc(bigger cams can cause issues with vacuum-which make the brakes a little soft and/or raising base idle rpm).

The Edelbrock rpmII and HolleySMII are the 2 best intakes for h/c/i 5.0. They perform the best and look good IMO. I would go with a 75mm throttle body. You can take the TB gasket and set it up on the intake opening and take a small dremel to "port match" the opening to a true 75mm if you want but it isn't completely necessary. The best brand is AccuFab. BBK are ok but tend to have a whistle sound to them.

Yes for the need for the auto computer. If you have the desire to learn how to(some do some don't) you should look into a mega squirt standalone system(or equivalent). They replace the stock computer and you wouldn't need to buy a MAF. It would cost less going that route also. There is a good thread on here that shares tunes and you shouldn't have a problem getting the car to run well. Just a FYI. It's just another option for you.

With your car being an automatic don't forget to upgrade the trans. You'll need a better torque converter,shift kit/valve body,and cooler for the best results. Stock AOD's suck for performance and respond well to some upgrades. Your project just keeps getting more expensive doesn't it. Lol. Good luck on the project.

 

[Great88]

Lmao yes it does seem to be getting more expensive ill most likely stick with getting an A9P ECU and then purchasing this: https://lmr.com/item/PMA-EMAWH/1986-88-Mustang-50L-Mass-Air-Conversion-Wiring-Harness (and then obviosuly grab the 80mm Pro M Meter to go along with it). That combination would work i assume? And are theyre any certain cars in junkyards or anywhere else that i would be able to get the ECU at a decent price?
Okay so its not necessary to port the intake if i purchased a 75mm TB for a holley systemax ii intake. Would there be any losses if the intake is not port matched or if i purchased a 70mm TB instead?
As far as the cams go which in your opinion would work the best/also have the best lope to it ?

 

[A5literMan]

Lmao yes it does seem to be getting more expensive ill most likely stick with getting an A9P ECU and then purchasing this: https://lmr.com/item/PMA-EMAWH/1986-88-Mustang-50L-Mass-Air-Conversion-Wiring-Harness (and then obviosuly grab the 80mm Pro M Meter to go along with it). That combination would work i assume? And are theyre any certain cars in junkyards or anywhere else that i would be able to get the ECU at a decent price?
Okay so its not necessary to port the intake if i purchased a 75mm TB for a holley systemax ii intake. Would there be any losses if the intake is not port matched or if i purchased a 70mm TB instead?
As far as the cams go which in your opinion would work the best/also have the best lope to it ?

Ok, so I'm going to complicate your life a little more.hehehe. The 70mm will work but the 75 is a better choice. For the most efficient motor(power potential) think of the entire induction system as a whole. You want it to be as smooth of a transition as possible and sized big enough to allow the most air into the motor as possible. You do not want any bottlenecks before the combustion chamber of the head. You're smallest/narrowest point will be the "maximum" air flow you can obtain. The motor is essentially an air pump. You want to pack as much oxygen/fuel into the cylinder as possible. There always will be limitations of this thought process for a street car assuming you want a vehicle that can have good manners. So...that is why I recommend the 80mm MAF(bigger than you'll actually need-but it's a high quality piece and will not limit you in any way),75mm throttle body(again same principle),a high flowing intake manifold(either the Eddy or Holley intakes), matched with a good efficient head/cam combo. Biggest valves you can use in the head matched with a good cam which allows the valves to bring in air and expell the exhaust after the combustion process. Picking the "right" cam for the combo is...slightly complicated. The "best" option (read most expensive again) is a custom designed cam for your exact combination of parts and desired use. You DO NOT have to go that direction but again it's an option. Of those cams I listed above the tfs 1 and comp cam 270hr will have the most lope. There are other choices and you can research:talk to the pros themselves. Here are some you can research: Lunati,Comp Cams,Bullet Cams,and FlowTechInductions.com. They all have tech lines/recommendation forms you can fill out and they will contact you by email/phone. This process would be the last thing I would do because they are going to need a lot of information about your motor/car/desired usuage. That was a long winded answer. Lol

 

[Great88]

So putting the 75mm TB on a 72mm intake without any port matching isnt going to rob any power? Also i guess it was missed but are there any cars i could get the A9P ECU out of at a junkyard?

 

[A5literMan]

So putting the 75mm TB on a 72mm intake without any port matching isnt going to rob any power? Also i guess it was missed but are there any cars i could get the A9P ECU out of at a junkyard?

It will be fine. The power difference is minimal. I'm at a loss on the computer question. Start another thread titled with that question. You'll probably get your answer doing that.

 

[stykthyn]

You need the a9p or c3m from an 89-93 mustang. No other ecu will work.

Your best bet for that nugget would be your parts house.

 

[Great88]

Im guessing minimal is just a few HP? And i would assume most mechanics would be able to do the minor port matching or would i need to go to a seperate machine shop? As far as the ECU goes i will definitely do that then. I think everything you have mentioned is what im going to end up picking up when a tons of funds become available thank you very much for all of the help