piecing together combo, first step, opinions wanted

Black95GTS · Sep 12, 2005

I'm in the process of piecing together an HCI, but I don't have the funds to do it right away, so I'm gonna do it in 2 steps. I eventually want a (maybe) ported street heat, twisted wedge heads, and a custom cam. My first step to be completed this fall:

1 - Street Heat intake
2 - 80mm MAF
3 - 3.27 to 4.10 conversion
4 - Dallas Speedcal
5 - 30 lb injectors

Second Step:

5 - 255 fuel pump
6 - FTI Cam
7 - Twisted Wedge Heads
8 - Tweecer
9 - 75 mm TB

I'm looking to be shifting at 6000 grand or so, I want a street car, I don't really plan on taking this to the strip that often. I want the low end, but I want to try to do something a little different then AFR 165s. I DO NOT want a dyno queen.

Now, I know the 30 lb injectors are definately NOT needed at this stage, but I do want them for the future, as I plan on tuning with the stock fuel pressure and don't want to mess with it. I am also toying with the idea of a 75-100 shot, so I don't want to lean out if that ever happens.

My question is, will I be able to do the first step without needing a tune or messing with the timing? I believe that I can but I want to double check. I know the 80mm MAF and 30lbers are much bigger then I need, but I don't think they'll kill me if they are calibrated together.

thanks,

Adam

Black95GTS · Sep 13, 2005

BlueOvalStangGT · Sep 13, 2005

Are you gonna get new rockers and stuff? I would keep the MAF and injectors for when you do the h/c. Do the TB, Tweecer, fuel pump, and gears with the intake first. Like this youll have time to get the hang of the tweecer before you really need to use it.

final5-0 · Sep 13, 2005

BlueOvalStangGT said:
Are you gonna get new rockers and stuff? I would keep the MAF and injectors for when you do the h/c. Do the TB, Tweecer, fuel pump, and gears with the intake first. Like this youll have time to get the hang of the tweecer before you really need to use it.

I think those are wise words Keven.

Adam

The maf/inj's will give next to nothing as far as a power gain with your plan. They will be needed later on for sure but I guess Kevin and I are trying to show that a slightly different approach might be more helpful.

The maf/inj's will make things a bit more difficult for you when you teach yourself to self tune. 30's can be a bit of a pain in very low pulse width driving conditions and the maf will cause you to have to build a curve for it and then, most likely you will have to Tweec some of the points in that curve a bit.

I did my combo with plans similar to how you want to go about it.

There is a brief description about it and some Tweecer tuning info on my site that might be helpful or give you some ideas if you care to take a look.

One last thing, if money is tight, you can hold off on the tb and upgrade it later. I did that and almost made it to 300rwhp with the stocker.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Grady

Grn92LX · Sep 13, 2005

I agree with Keven on this one. Grady gave good info as well.

Should be a good combo all said and done and should run hard on the spray. Sounds like my old combo except it was never tuned Don't forget valve springs that FTI will set you up with. My one piece of advice that Grady and keven didn't touch on would be to go a bit more aggressive on the cam. That was one mistake I made when I swapped to an FTI cam from my old TFS 1 cam. I know Grady has said he wishes he went more on the cam. I'm only saying this because I had exactly what you are wanting to do.

CManT1914 · Sep 13, 2005

If you're REALLY strapped for money, like Grady said, you can hold off on the throttle body AND on the maf. He had the stock throttle body and maf and still put down 293 or so. With the twEECer, you can tune the PCM for the larger injectors without needing a new maf.

95Vert · Sep 13, 2005

final5-0 · Sep 13, 2005

Grn92LX said:
I agree with Keven on this one. Grady gave good info as well.

Should be a good combo all said and done and should run hard on the spray. Sounds like my old combo except it was never tuned Don't forget valve springs that FTI will set you up with. My one piece of advice that Grady and keven didn't touch on would be to go a bit more aggressive on the cam. That was one mistake I made when I swapped to an FTI cam from my old TFS 1 cam. I know Grady has said he wishes he went more on the cam. I'm only saying this because I had exactly what you are wanting to do.

Yes Mike is right on about the hotter cam specs when working with Ed.

However

Don't do that and then depend on playing with fuel pressure or twisting the dizzy to make any or all drivability issues be gone.

Remember, we are talking about a 325 to 350rwhp stock block combo here so this is a pretty serious effort with this approach.

You will have to Pro or Self tune the combo if you try to go that route.

I assure you, it ain't gonna quite work out like you think when you fire it up for the first time.

Grady

blksn955.o · Sep 14, 2005

I have always heard that the speed-cal does not work with our 94-95 cars since we have a gear to change in the trans. Might be able to free up some money then.

Black95GTS · Sep 14, 2005

Thanks guys, this is exactly what I was looking for. I already have a 65mm TB so thats why I was debating holding off. In terms of rockers I'd like to get the advice from the cam builder before I get those. This will be a while in the future but I'm pretty sure I'll be going with Mr. Curtis because I've only heard the best of things about his business.

Kevin I think your advice about the tweecer makes a lot of sense, plus I think it will be a lot of fun.

Yeah the cam is definately going to be hot. Like I said before, I'm all about useable power under the curve, so I really want this thing to pound off the line. I'm assuming thats gonna make the idle a bit challenging but it will be worth it.

thanks for the advice, I'll definately be updating as I get the project going.

adam

scarless · Sep 15, 2005

30# injectors and 75mm TB will give you problems for street use. If I were you I'd skip the injectors, TB, and MAF and just get the intake, heads, and gears. Your 65mm TB and 19# injectors will be fine for a while. You can upgrade the rest later, but 24# injectors and 70mm TB are more of what for the street.

final5-0 · Sep 15, 2005

scarless said:
30# injectors and 75mm TB will give you problems for street use. If I were you I'd skip the injectors, TB, and MAF and just get the intake, heads, and gears. Your 65mm TB and 19# injectors will be fine for a while. You can upgrade the rest later, but 24# injectors and 70mm TB are more of what for the street.

The 24's are easier to deal with if you try to get by without a custom tune, no doubt about it.

I got two a couple of thoughts with a blanket statement like that.

1) those 24's will take you only so far and in this thread we have talked about 300 to 350rwhp so ...........................

at 350rwhp, 24's won't be enough unless you work them with really elevated pressures.

2) if one is gonna custom tune then 30's would be better as you can make the adjustments they need to make them more user friendly on a dd street car.

One more time, we are talkin about a combo that is a bit more than a few bolt-ons or is at least close to the 300rwhp mark.

Grady

scarless · Sep 15, 2005

Black95GTS said:
I want a street car, I don't really plan on taking this to the strip that often. I want the low end, but I want to try to do something a little different then AFR 165s.

Are you guys reading this part? If by street car he means a 10 second street car, then maybe. If he wants a daily driver then he is on the wrong path. 30# injectors, 75mm TB, and a hot cam will not give him a very streetable ride. Custom tune all you want, but from idle up to 4K will really suck.

Grn92LX · Sep 15, 2005

I am going to try not to bicker too much as I do not want to ruin the thread like recent others. The 75mm tb will have zero driving issues (I would know, I have one) it will not lose low end (I would know, I have one) I agree that for his phase 1 mods, the 75mm isn't a necessity. Relying on the mac/eef to get all the fuel tables right can be a recipie for disaster. I've had idle problems with both (i've has 24's and 30's on a 300rwhp car) Since he's getting the tweecer, hands down the 30's are ideal. He's also planning on a 75-100 shot (yup, i had that too )

My 75mm tb and 30lb inejctors cause me absolutly no isses right now since I tune my car with a PMS. As stated, relying on the maf/eec to work perfectly is a gamble.

scarless · Sep 15, 2005

Your 11:1 347 is not this guys 302 stock bottom end. It takes more to feed a 347. Too many people over inject and oversize they TB, bigger isn't always better.

blksn955.o · Sep 15, 2005

Get the 30's and have the area for greater safty margin.

I have 24's and am prob. preaty close to the 290-300 wrhp (should be anyway in the ballpark) and have though about going to 30's. I also have a n2o kit but it is wet so the inj. strain is not an issue (like dry kits do). I only got them as I knew they would be better off than the 19's and got a REAL good deal on them.

If you plan on getting a tweecer you can get it to drive like factory drivability for sure so dont be afraid of going larger in T-body/inj. or even the MAF.

CManT1914 · Sep 15, 2005

As long as he port matches the intake to the throttle body, it will not be a problem.

As long as he tunes the car, the injectors will not be a problem. What about guys with blowers that run 42's? They don't neccessarily have issues once they're tuned. Why should this guy, when he has SMALLER injectors, and is tuning his as well? I know it's N/A vs. S/C, but still. A tune can take out pretty much any problem associated with big injectors and cam.

Grn92LX · Sep 15, 2005

scarless said:
Your 11:1 347 is not this guys 302 stock bottom end. It takes more to feed a 347. Too many people over inject and oversize they TB, bigger isn't always better.

The 75mm tb and 30's were from my old 300rwhp 302 I should have stated that.

Black95GTS · Sep 15, 2005

blksn955.o said:
Get the 30's and have the area for greater safty margin.

That is exactly what I'm thinking, especially with the small NOS shot. Honestly I'm not too worried about the tune with the Tweecer R/T, I mean guys out there have much wilder combos then I am planning and can drive like factory tune with the tweecer. And i'm pretty damn good with computers so messing with that stuff doesn't scare me at all. (Just got my BS in electrical and computer engineering) Also, I already own a D/D, this car will be a weekend warrior.

I was also thinking, do I need to upgrade the ignition system? I know it won't hurt but if its not necessary then I'm gonna pass for now and squeak by with the MSD coil upgrade.

Also, the trickflow intake is already port matched to the 75mm size. I figure that trick flow knows more about intakes then I do, and if they're trying to tell me something, well I'm definately gonna strap on the big boy.

thanks and keep 'em comin,

Adam

CManT1914 · Sep 15, 2005

No real need to upgrade the ignition unless something's broke. I assume you mean a box too? I replaced my coil, cap/rotor, and my wires at the same time. But my coil was bad, and my contacts on the rotor were corroded too. I just wanted new wires too.

piecing together combo, first step, opinions wanted

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