Replacing front suspension, what to get?

[94GTLaserRC]

I'm looking to replace my entire front suspension before too long. I was thinking about going with the MM kit, but it's $1700

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/kpkg.asp



Summit has the QA1 kit for around $1000
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...3LB&N=115+4294925130+400026+1008&autoview=sku


The only problem with this kit is the c/c plates look like they're only 3-bolt...


Or I could go with the $700 UPR kit.
http://www.uprproducts.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=299


I will need c/c plates($249 from MM), struts(Koni sport's, $166 each @ summit), and probably some bushings and tie rod ends. Overall, the UPR kit looks like it's gonna be the best deal.

Also, what spring size/rate would you all reccommend? I want a good handling car, but mostly set up for drag racing. By good handling, I mean like stock or preferably a little better.

This Month's Mustang/FF Mag has a whold section on the MM grip in the box kit and the install.

RC

 

[nmcgrawj]

How do i know what kit is good at doing what? How is the granatelli motorsports k-member? That is $220 in summit. I have no idea on which company to go with between Granatelli, QA1, and PA Racing. Will it make THAT big of a difference on which one i go with?

What were the reasons you guys went with the k-member you chose?

 

[ES Stangin]

I wouldn't go with Granatelli... from what I've read they are poor MM knock-offs. I can't vouch for the validity of that, though.

 

[Killercanary]

I went with PA due to all the research I did as it offered some of the most header clearance of any K member (its almost wider than the frame rails if that makes sense), and Jason's customer service is TOP NOTCH. The only problems I had with mine was that I personally didn't like the standard coil over kit that came with the front end "kit." I called Jason and before I have even gotten donw explaining why I didn't like it he told me to just send it back and he sent me the strange coil-over kit immediately with NO hassle at all. I do have some clearance issues but its my own fault. When I had my bogarts made I opted to have the fronts made with a little more backspacing than is normal for a 17X9" wheel because I had the clearance with the stock stuff and I wanted less of a lip up fron so that the rear lip would look more pronounced, well in doing so I now have contact between the tire and the coil-over spring as well as the A arm at both the front at rear at full lock. I can run spacers (which is what I have to do for the time being) until I send the wheels back someday to have them "narrowed" which I actaully want to do anyway. If I had to do it all over again I would not have gone with 17X9's up front and would have stayed with 17X8's, my 245's look stretched on the 9" wheel and I don't want 275's.

As for drop rack, all that does is drop the steering rack down. Spring perches are needed if you plan to run coil springs, if you are running coil-overs only then stick with the K member without them as it saves some weight. Mine does NOT have them. I run 14" 175lb springs on my car and the thing drives like stock. Its a little noisey when going over hard bumps on the pass side, but nothing is loose, I have spoken with other coilover owners and they experience the same thing.

 

[nmcgrawj]

I went with PA due to all the research I did as it offered some of the most header clearance of any K member (its almost wider than the frame rails if that makes sense), and Jason's customer service is TOP NOTCH. The only problems I had with mine was that I personally didn't like the standard coil over kit that came with the front end "kit." I called Jason and before I have even gotten donw explaining why I didn't like it he told me to just send it back and he sent me the strange coil-over kit immediately with NO hassle at all. I do have some clearance issues but its my own fault. When I had my bogarts made I opted to have the fronts made with a little more backspacing than is normal for a 17X9" wheel because I had the clearance with the stock stuff and I wanted less of a lip up fron so that the rear lip would look more pronounced, well in doing so I now have contact between the tire and the coil-over spring as well as the A arm at both the front at rear at full lock. I can run spacers (which is what I have to do for the time being) until I send the wheels back someday to have them "narrowed" which I actaully want to do anyway. If I had to do it all over again I would not have gone with 17X9's up front and would have stayed with 17X8's, my 245's look stretched on the 9" wheel and I don't want 275's.

As for drop rack, all that does is drop the steering rack down. Spring perches are needed if you plan to run coil springs, if you are running coil-overs only then stick with the K member without them as it saves some weight. Mine does NOT have them. I run 14" 175lb springs on my car and the thing drives like stock. Its a little noisey when going over hard bumps on the pass side, but nothing is loose, I have spoken with other coilover owners and they experience the same thing.

Thanks for the response paul. Do you have to adjust the coil overs when u go the track or do u just adjust the struts?

Did u go with the standard drop rack? Or did u have it lowered?

Did you notice if it dropped the front of the car down like Vib?

And i think money wise i might have to go with the spring perches. I want to upgrade to coil overs but trying to do that now, along with the k-member, and all the other crap i got going on...it just aint gonna happen

 

[Killercanary]

Thanks for the response paul. Do you have to adjust the coil overs when u go the track or do u just adjust the struts?

I do not adjust the springs, just the struts and shocks. I set the ride height at factory specs which helps preload the springs a good bit which aids in weight transfer at the track. I had the car aligned with the current ride height, so I don't mess with the springs. When I get rid of my body kit then I'll lower the car, but I can't now due to my driveway.

Did u go with the standard drop rack? Or did u have it lowered?

Standard rack and no its not lowered.

Did you notice if it dropped the front of the car down like Vib?

No, but I have the adjustability of coil-overs unlike Joe. Since he is running a standard coil spring, there really isn't any adjustments he can make short of changing out the springs to change the height.

And i think money wise i might have to go with the spring perches. I want to upgrade to coil overs but trying to do that now, along with the k-member, and all the other crap i got going on...it just aint gonna happen

What about running the stock A arms and using the money spent on those to get the coil-over kit. Some kits charge more for spring perches (PA does unless soemthing changed), so by deleting them you can also save money there. Coil overs are noisey though, just keep that in mind. I thought something was wrong when I first drove the car as they bang when you hit hard. quick bumps.

 

[nmcgrawj]

What about running the stock A arms and using the money spent on those to get the coil-over kit. Some kits charge more for spring perches (PA does unless soemthing changed), so by deleting them you can also save money there. Coil overs are noisey though, just keep that in mind. I thought something was wrong when I first drove the car as they bang when you hit hard. quick bumps.

I will have to look into that. I was thinking of getting new control arms(either tubular or 03 cobra) but now that you bring up that idea. It should come close to the same price...atleast in the ball park. But that brings me to my next question....

How do u know what springs to go with? Its based off things like what the car will be doing and the car's weight right? I dont have a specific # for my weight....i assume its ~3500 with me in it...if not a little more. Sorry for the questionaire if there is a site i can read this stuff on point me in the right direction. Or you can just continue explaining

I appreciate the help:SNSign:

 

[1slow95]

It's my understanding that PA does not change the geometry, which is why I'm not going with them. By keeping the stock geometry, you're ride height will not change like on Joe's car. What happened with his is that the control arm mounting location is moved up to keep the control arms parrallel to the ground on lowered cars. The Steeda X2 balljoints do kinda the same thing.

Here's the reasons why Im going with QA1(probably),
-Cheap price
-Revised geometry for improved handling/ride
-lightweight

The only negatives I could find about the QA1 is that it's not strong enough for serious road racing/autocross. However, I saw one guy on Corral added a 4-point brace to it and that fixed the strength problem.

 

[WhiteDevil]

wow this has turned out to be a pretty great discussion. Based on the researchi have done and reading through this i was planning on a PA racing K and i am still going to go with PA Racing.

First i dont really want the enhanced geometry for handling cause i dont do any kind of road racing or auto X. I just want to save weight and have more header clearance so PA racing seems to be right up my alley.

Im also probably going with 03 A-arms but im not dead set i might just get new bushings for my stockers but we will see.

Great discussion guys. :SNSign:

 

[BlackVert]

Here's the reasons why Im going with QA1(probably),
-Cheap price
-Revised geometry for improved handling/ride
-lightweight

Back from the dead! The search button actually found me something very useful!

Low-5.0, I see you ended up going with the QA1 K-Member. Like it?

Anyone else with QA1 K-Members? How do you like them?

Any issues using a 4 point brace with this on a convertible?

I think I'll to go with QA1 too (including the A-Arms), unless I hear bad things about them.

I'm also thinking about going back to springs. I want a quiet suspension, no rattles. Does anyone have coil-overs that don't rattle AT ALL over bumps? Or do I need to go with springs instead? No rattles is much more important to me than adjustability.

 

[Killercanary]

Chris, unless you plan to modify the K member, you might as well throw that 4 pt convertible brace away as it can not be used with any aftermarket K member that I am aware of. I never got to drive my car enough to determine if it had a negative effect due to its removal (I blew it up just days after getting the alignment done.) I hope to do a custom roll bar very soon as when I do chassis rigidity will not be a problem with the setup I have in mind.

Guys have found ways to get their coil-overs quite using teflon bushings. You will have to search for specifics as I don't know them.

 

[Methodical]

Chris, I have the Max Motorsports coilovers with Bilstein shocks front = 400lbs and rear = 250 - its the sport valve setup, and I have no rattle at all over any bumps. From my research, I found that those that rattle had loose fitting coilover sleeves and none were MM's. MM's sleeves are tight and I mean tight because it took me some time to get them over the shocks. Again, my MM coilovers don't rattle at all - very tight. They are a little more expensive than the others I've seen but I don't have the problems I've seen others have with those of lesser quality.

 

[BlackVert]

hmmmm, maybe the PA member is more for me, i'm confused.

is the "enhanced geometry" for better street handling, or what is it for exactly?

i am not looking to drop my car more than 1.5" max (from stock), and it is a 100% street car. will the QA1 or PA member cause me to drop too far? i realize that coil-overs let me set the ride height, but is there any worry about range of adjustability if the k-member drops it a good bit (i.e. - might the coil-overs not be able to lift it enough to compensate for the k-member drop)?

apparently, some setups move them forward in the wheel well. but i want my wheels to stay centered in the wheel wells. from Low-5.0's pics, it looks like the QA1 keeps them centered. i'm guessing that the PA member also leaves them centered. is that right?

Chris, unless you plan to modify the K member, you might as well throw that 4 pt convertible brace away as it can not be used with any aftermarket K member that I am aware of. I never got to drive my car enough to determine if it had a negative effect due to its removal (I blew it up just days after getting the alignment done.) I hope to do a custom roll bar very soon as when I do chassis rigidity will not be a problem with the setup I have in mind.

Guys have found ways to get their coil-overs quite using teflon bushings. You will have to search for specifics as I don't know them.

i understand, but i hear that they should be braced because they flex. so i guess that is a custom job?

Chris, I have the Max Motorsports coilovers with Bilstein shocks front = 400lbs and rear = 250 - its the sport valve setup, and I have no rattle at all over any bumps. From my research, I found that those that rattle had loose fitting coilover sleeves and none were MM's. MM's sleeves are tight and I mean tight because it took me some time to get them over the shocks. Again, my MM coilovers don't rattle at all - very tight. They are a little more expensive than the others I've seen but I don't have the problems I've seen others have with those of lesser quality.

that is good to hear. with a convertible 408, what spring rate should i use?

 

[Methodical]

...that is good to hear. with a convertible 408, what spring rate should i use?

I suggest you call MM as they are the experts. But if it were me, I'd go with something between 350-400lbs front and 250lb in the rear, especially with the added weight of the motor . For my car, I wanted a firmer and sportier ride, which most folks probably would not like. My ride is not choppy but real tight - unlike when I cut my springs back in the day. Plus, I plan to do a little road racing some day. My wife loves the ride quality and even commented that it rides much smoother than before.

 

[Killercanary]

JFYI Chris, I run 14" 175lb springs in my car. Its more of a drag setup though, but the short time I did drive it felt just like stock. If and when I get my body kit off and my wheels narrowed, I may throw a 14" higher spring rate coil over in it. That's the beauty of coil overs, the springs are easy to swap and they are relatively cheap.

 

[Pops Fun]

inquiring mind

 

[WhiteDevil]

I run a PA Racing K with a stock stlye coil spring set up. I run steeda springs. I would say after the swap it sits just a little higher than before but that may be beause of the HUGE weight difference between stock and the PA one. My wheels seem to be in the same position that they were stock. I also done remember reading anything about enhanced geometry for handling with the PA racing K but hey if they are there i will take it.

 

[BlackVert]

from what i have read, the pa member doesn't change the geometry, but the qa1 one does.

 

[ProKiller]

how does the changed geometry effect the positioning of the wheels? any one have before and after pics?

 

[1slow95]

The QA1 k member moves the control arm mounting points out and up(I think). It lowered my car about a half inch, and the front wheels stick out slightly farther than they did before the swap. I haven't tested the handling because the tires hit the inner liners now, but it does ride better. The PA Racing k member is just a lightwieght stock replacement.

MM has a k-brace that can be used with their k member. You will need to custom make one for any other brand, AFIK. In the thread I found on corral, the guy installed the QA1 kmember with no bracing and when he took his car to an auto-x it had severe understeer when pushing it hard. He fabbed up a 4-point brace and that fixed the handling.