Setting Timing with Tweecer R/T?

[91LX_5L]

I havent used my tweecer yet but I would like to know step by step how to bump my timing up. I set it back to base (10*) so I can change it with the tweecer! Want to do it by this weekend so I can have some fun with some f-bodys

Thanks in advance!

 

[vristang]

I am not sure, as I have not made it that far down the list yet. I would like to hear suggestions though.

You will want to start out with the following...
1. Load MAF Transfer
2. Set Injector High/Low Slopes
3. Set Battery Voltage Offsets
4. Set Injector Breakpoint (assuming you are an sn95 puter user)
5. Set Injector Timing

I would think that ignition timing would come after these things?

Don't forget disabling the egr and air systems, if you have removed the equipment.

I probably forgot something, but this should get you started on asking more questions

I would think that ignition timing would be one of the last things one would look at, but I have been wrong before.

Good Luck,
jason

 

[Swarzkopf]

Jason- I think it depends. On a mostly stock or bolt-on car bumping the igntion timing is usually one of the first things you'll want to do with your Tweecer, whereas with a modified heads/cam/intake car you'll probably want to address the stuff you posted.

Eitherway, I'm assuming this is for a stock or bolt-on car? If not, disregard the rest of my post.

It's easy. Go into "Scalars". Find "spark_adder_global". It should be at zero by default. Changing it adds and subtracts timing advance: For example, if your distributor is set at 10* (stock) and you set spark_adder_global to 6, you are running 16* timing.

 

[blksn955.o]

The best way will be to one of these

1. Set the MBT, borderline, alt. base spark table to 55's and run the spark table base set to what timing you want total (so for starters say add 4* to the max timing at the .7-1 load rows). Set the timing to have all the timing in by 2,000-2,500 rpm instead of the slow adv. that is stock.

2. Set the MBT, borderline to 55's and set the alt. and base table to match again in the top two rows (you can go top 3 rows if you wish to be see if it helps).

The reason its better is that the global will still add that timing even to the EGR tables when they are in use. This can lead to some det. issues were in the table method you are not messing with anything but WOT were EGR is not used so you dont run into any drivability issues.

 

[Swarzkopf]

Makes sense...I never experienced issues since my car has no EGR and it's turned off via the Tweecer.

 

[vristang]

Swarzkopf -
I see what you are saying. I guess I just assume a tweecer means more mods have been done. That is not always true.

 

[final5-0]

Everybody who has posted above has valid points IMHO.

My thoughts about your Q is along these lines .........

We got no info (sig) about your car.

therefor

My reply can only be in general terms.

I prefer using the spark tables over the global method.

To my way of thinking, the global adjustment is nothing more than twisting the dizzy. With this method of adjustment, you have not utilized the ability to fine tune.

If you are NA and if your af ratio is not ... too lean ... I would go along with Greg's info about using the base table only to have the total advance come in quicker and slowly creep up on the final value ... which will be (again if na) in the range of 30 to 38 total.

You see Jason saying to get the Closed Loop tune nailed down before Open Loop (wot) and I feel this is wise advice in every case and even all the more so with this Q since we don't know the exact conditions you are trying to tune from.

The only way to be 100% sure about SAFE spark table optimization tuning is to apply that along with the optimization of the fuel table.

When working with the fuel table, you gotta have a wb for a true/accurate reading of your final Open Loop (wot) fuel ratio to be 100% SAFE.

One can do damage here if they got big spark and little fuel.

Considering the GT's come too lean from Ford the day we got them, if you got a GT, I feel this needed to be said to be responsible with my reply.

When I tune for wot max power ...........

I like to start with spark dialed back a good bit and verify the fuel ratio.

Then ... get fuel to within say half a point too fat

Then ... start to get the spark curve going

And finally ... optimize the last bit of fuel/spark to what the combo likes.

Good luck with your tuning

Grady

 

[91LX_5L]

thanks guys...well I run a mild HCI setup.

I have Windsor Jr Heads (similar to GT40), Cobra Intake, E303 Cam, Edlebrock 70mm TB, and have an AFPR...

any more tips on what I can adjust for a bit more power/reliabilty/smooth idling?

Thanks!!!

 

[91LX_5L]

Well honestly 90% of the stuff you guys said means nothing to me I dont get it! Im not that good with these tables or any of these meanings, im not a super tecnical guy so I get confuised with this realy easy so please bear with me. I will learn as I go thats why I wanna start with the basics.

Lets start over:

1994 Mustang GT
Ajustable kirban fuel pressure regulator (bumped up pressure)
Stock Computer & Stock 19# Injectors
Worlds Windsor Jr Heads (similar to GT40)
e303 Cam
Cobra Intake
70mm tb
CAI
Full exhaust and shorty headers
Underdrive Pulleys

Ok now I dropped my timing back down to 10*. I want to bump it back up to 14* using the tweecer. I am a total newbie to this and none of these tables or anything mean much to me, im not too good with technical stuff.

So I want to bump up my timing, can someone please explain step by step how to do this? Also are there any other things I should adjust that are super easy as well, what should I adjust them to and how and what do they do???

Thanks a lot in advace, I just want to do some super easy tweecing and mabye ill feel a bit more comfortable with the software and can do some more complecated things after.

THANKS

 

[final5-0]

OK ... Where to start ... Its gonna be kinda long

Here we go

Some basic info to get you started

Well honestly 90% of the stuff you guys said means nothing to me I dont get it!

Nether did I when I got started

You could visit the Tweecer site and go all the way back in those old threads and spend some time there. Thats when lots of peeps were getting their self tuning feet wet and you can pick up info more easily as you will be able to relate better.

btw ... don't waste time on fox threads ... 94-95 only at first

Im not that good with these tables or any of these meanings,

Nobody is when they first get started but you pick it up as you go.

im not a super tecnical guy so I get confuised with this realy easy so please bear with me. I will learn as I go thats why I wanna start with the basics.

Lets start over:

1994 Mustang GT
Ajustable kirban fuel pressure regulator (bumped up pressure)
Stock Computer & Stock 19# Injectors
Worlds Windsor Jr Heads (similar to GT40)
e303 Cam
Cobra Intake
70mm tb
CAI
Full exhaust and shorty headers
Underdrive Pulleys

You don't have to be super technical to self tune because if some Hick in Texas with a Laptop (ME) can do it ... ANYBODY ... can do it

BUT

You gotta invest a bit of time/effort to pick up the basics. That will enable yourself to understand how the pcm goes about doing its thing.

Here is another way to put it ... I hope it makes more sense ...

How does one go about improving upon something (pcm) if they don't understand how it works in the first place

You don't have to know EVERYTHING about how the pcm works

BUT

You DO have to have a general or basic idea about how it operates.

Since you still got the stock maf ... that will make things much easier.

Ok now I dropped my timing back down to 10*. I want to bump it back up to 14* using the tweecer. I am a total newbie to this and none of these tables or anything mean much to me, im not too good with technical stuff.

So I want to bump up my timing, can someone please explain step by step how to do this? Also are there any other things I should adjust that are super easy as well, what should I adjust them to and how and what do they do???

Thanks a lot in advace, I just want to do some super easy tweecing and mabye ill feel a bit more comfortable with the software and can do some more complecated things after.

THANKS

In order to make all this happen you are gonna have to deal with ...
load and how it effects the various spark tables
total amount of spark
advance rate of spark
tip in spark scalar
data logging in CalCon

It is not as bad as it first looks

btw ... It won't be the SOFTWARE that will be the challenge

Its gonna be WHY would you want to change something in the pcm
based upon
WHAT the car is the car telling you by the data in the d logs

Anyway ......

Since you said you wanted to start with the basics

Here they are

Get your data logging up and working and drive around while capturing data to your hard drive so you can study it to see what is going on during different driving conditions.

Use the data in the log to observe the following

spark
load
lambse
kamrf
closed loop driving conditions
open loop droving conditions

That will really give you something to relate to as far as what the load thing is all about with the 94-95 Stangs

Here is another tip to help you get a quick start ........

Jason has some good info on his site and I got a bit of basic stuff on mine as well.

You'll be fine

You learn all this self tuning stuff

JUST LIKE

You eat that big old Elephant

One bite at a time

Slow down a bit

It all can't be learned in a day or two

Just have some fun with this stuff

Grady

 

[Methodical]

91 LX take a look at the sticky above - Tweecer Tuning Manual. This gives you some of the basic changes you should do that is pretty much standard. You will see peeps input there. Again these are some of the basic changes you should first make and it is what you are looking for. Check it out.

As Grady said don't even be too concerned, right now, with WOT. I am being Methodical and patient (too much time and $ to mess up) about my tuning. I still haven't touched the fuel tables for WOT because I don't have a WB yet. Everytime I am ready to purchase one something else comes up . But damit I am going to get one. Got my eye on the LM-1 with datalogging and gauge. I don't thing I will go thru the Tweecer with the WB though. I intitially had may total timing at 35* and as high as 37* (heard some noise up there) and just recently I put it to 32* to be safe - similar to when I had the distributor at 14* and she's pretty strong but I know there's somemore there.

 

[final5-0]

I still haven't touched the fuel tables for WOT because I don't have a WB yet. Everytime I am ready to purchase one something else comes up . But damit I am going to get one. Got my eye on the LM-1 with datalogging and gauge. I don't thing I will go thru the Tweecer with the WB though. I intitially had may total timing at 35* and as high as 37* (heard some noise up there) and just recently I put it to 32* to be safe - similar to when I had the distributor at 14* and she's pretty strong but I know there's somemore there.

I hear ya with the concerns

That is the thing about finding more WOT power with spark.

You can ALWAYS find more pep with more spark.

The prob with modded Stangs that have larger inj's/maf and such

You really don't know where you stand with the fuel ratio unless you got a wb.

Just cause you may have Closed Loop tune near perfect shape without the use of a wb (which is possible by using kamrf/lambse)

What does that have to do with the WOT thing ... NOTHING

Using a keen ear to hear the ping thing is not the most accurate way to see if things might be a bit lean

I do know how it is to not have the wb as when I got mine ...... The price for them at that time was 4 to 5 times more than nowadays

I thought I had stolen one when I got a complete setup for a bit less than $600

Why does all this self tuning stuff have to be so costly

Grady