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Whos Carbed And Why? Looking For Input...

  • Thread starter Thread starter madspeed
  • Start date Start date Sep 6, 2012
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#21
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #21
As usual, upstaged by an old(er) man who has forgotten more than I'll ever know.

I agree W /JRichker on every point of his story.

But,.....

If you're "that" guy, that cannot turn a screwdriver to help your own ass, hates the thought of his hands smelling like gas (even on the day at the track, because you don't want to soil your clean, pressed, white driving suit, w/ the speed racer red stripe sewn down the side.) and cannot either afford an innovate wide band O2 kit,..or lack the ability to "read" a spark plug, then ........................yes, you are far better advised to seek out a fuel injected car instead.

Because I don't know about you,...but the 15 minutes that it takes to makes a jet change in a carburetor,......well that scares the hell right outta me.

This argument always assumes that the car has efi on it already when comparing to it to a carb'd alternative, so I would ask another couple of questions.

Starting from stock, .......and purely because I don't know.

How much does it cost to add the 70mm TB, the 30 lb injectors, and the 80mm MAF? How much did the intake cost on the "hot HCI" in the stated example ? Will the stock intank pump support the power that the new combo is capable of producing, and how much will it cost to replace it if it don't? Lastly,.....if I decided to kick it up a notch, or drop it back one for better fuel mileage,....will the $125.00 little black box in the above example require I revisit the red headed kid w/ braces for a retune?
 

N8Dogg98

15 Year Member
Apr 4, 2005
3,872
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MN
Sep 8, 2012
#22
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #22
The comment "kids forget carbs existed before EFI" is what got me revved up (no pun intended). Bows and arrows existed before guns, but that don't make it better.

BTW my car has started AND ran perfectly with no effort other than turning the key in both -35* weather and 105* weather. Lets see one of you Carbies do this as effortless as I have.

Again gun > bow and arrow
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#23
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #23
N8Dogg98 said:
The comment "kids forget carbs existed before EFI" is what got me revved up (no pun intended). Bows and arrows existed before guns, but that don't make it better.

BTW my car has started AND ran perfectly with no effort other than turning the key in both -35* weather and 105* weather. Lets see one of you Carbies do this as effortless as I have.

Again gun > bow and arrow
Click to expand...

Only gay people try and start a car when it's -35f outside.
Double gay people try and start a 25 year old car in Fargo ND in February.

And don't edit my words,...it was "Jerry's Kids",...I wasn't cracking on the fact that your voice just changed, I was implying that it was someone w/ special needs.

Stick arrow up ass.

No No, scratch that....

Stick gun up ass, pull trigger.

Now that was effortless.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#24
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #24
Don't skirt my reply #21 question,...your an efi supporter,....how much does it cost?
 

68stang351

Founding Member
May 16, 2002
850
9
39
Savoy TX
Sep 8, 2012
#25
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #25
I see both sides of the argument, and I like both EFI and the carb.

FWIW, I've started my 68 a couple of times in 10-15 degree weather (we hardly ever get those hear) just to see if it would do it. 3 pumps of the gas and she cranks right up.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#26
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #26
68stang351 said:
I see both sides of the argument, and I like both EFI and the carb.

FWIW, I've started my 68 a couple of times in 10-15 degree weather (we hardly ever get those hear) just to see if it would do it. 3 pumps of the gas and she cranks right up.
Click to expand...

10 degrees? Nate probably walks around in shorts in 10 degree weather.
-35 is otherworldly. I've been in it, so I can say that all things living move way more slowly, and even breathing hurts.
mechanical stuff refuses to cooperate. Engine oil is like 90 weight, and the very process of starting a car has got to be detrimental to it's health.
I know cars live in Minnesota,and they start and run everyday in extreme cold,But they don't live long.

Try to find a 10+ yr old anything running around in the upper northern states. They don't make it. w/the extreme temps, and the salt and sand they use up there a 10 yr old car is hagged out by the 3650th day.

They're like large breed dogs,.......10 years old is about it.
 

madspeed

Colonel Mustard
Founding Member
Nov 29, 1999
8,914
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a van down by the river
Sep 8, 2012
#27
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #27
Well the car im considering would only be tahlken out on "nice" days and probably hardly ever in the winter. Im not really concerned about it needing 2 minutes to warm up or anything like that. I just dont want to be always having to tinker eith it. Now that I think of it, my first car was a 69 Mustang and I drove it all over the place without hesitation. I never messed with that one.....

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....
 

clement

Founding Member
Feb 27, 2001
1,106
52
59
Oak Cliff
Sep 8, 2012
#28
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #28
it seems to be the asumption that all carburetors are created equal. much like the difference between FAST and EEC IV, there is a big difference between an aftermarket custom/semi custom carburetor and any box stock holley/carter/ect. i have picked up .3 and a mph in the 1/8 by going from a holley 750HP to an AED HO modified 750 out of the box. and the AED is under $100 more than that holley. a good carburetor will hold a tune and drive nice. ive had holleys sit a month and you had to take it apart and clean it just to get the engine to start. after letting the AED sit for a month, 2 pump of the gas and it fired right off. a POS carb (you couldnt give me ootb holley) you will never get right. there is a lot more to it than just jetting, PV, air bleeds and idle mixture.
 

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,125
3,091
214
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Sep 8, 2012
#29
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #29
If you dont want to tinker with it, then I would wait and find an EFI car. Pretty simple answer, as everything in this thread tells you a carb car will need tinkering. Even the crazy assed Mad Mike says 15 minute jet changes are needed here and there.
 

clement

Founding Member
Feb 27, 2001
1,106
52
59
Oak Cliff
Sep 8, 2012
#30
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #30
if you have a box stock holley you will never quit ing with it because it will never be right.
 

madspeed

Colonel Mustard
Founding Member
Nov 29, 1999
8,914
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Sep 8, 2012
#31
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #31
Whats the word on Demon 850's? Thats what this car has

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....
 

N8Dogg98

15 Year Member
Apr 4, 2005
3,872
238
184
MN
Sep 8, 2012
#32
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #32
madmike1157 said:
10 degrees? Nate probably walks around in shorts in 10 degree weather.
-35 is otherworldly. I've been in it, so I can say that all things living move way more slowly, and even breathing hurts.
mechanical stuff refuses to cooperate. Engine oil is like 90 weight, and the very process of starting a car has got to be detrimental to it's health.
I know cars live in Minnesota,and they start and run everyday in extreme cold,But they don't live long.

Try to find a 10+ yr old anything running around in the upper northern states. They don't make it. w/the extreme temps, and the salt and sand they use up there a 10 yr old car is hagged out by the 3650th day.

They're like large breed dogs,.......10 years old is about it.
Click to expand...

My mustang was my only car for over five years and was driven all winter long (many -35* days in ND). I have zero rust and it runs better than the day I got it and doesnt even burn any oil despite having 142k miles.

My dad has owned many cars in his life and the last three cars he had, were sold with 200k miles and zero rust despite being driven year round in the snow and salt.

I know you're old, so I'll just assume, due to senility, you're getting carbed cars confused with FI cars. Carbed cars struggled to make it 10 years in the north
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#33
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #33
N8Dogg98 said:
My mustang was my only car for over five years and was driven all winter long (many -35* days in ND). I have zero rust and it runs better than the day I got it and doesnt even burn any oil despite having 142k miles.

My dad has owned many cars in his life and the last three cars he had, were sold with 200k miles and zero rust despite being driven year round in the snow and salt.

I know you're old, so I'll just assume, due to senility, you're getting carbed cars confused with FI cars. Carbed cars struggled to make it 10 years in the north
Click to expand...

Ohh you are such a weiner!

Tell your ass to pipe down and use your mouth next time you reply.

I'm talking about the entire cross section of northern cars, not your golden child touched, washed every week in the dead of winter "rust free" assortment of incred-i-cars you and your father personally own.
If you discount the handfull of cars you're talking about, take a good hard look around while you're freezing your nuts off this winter, and count how many 2002 and older cars there are slashing around, starting perfectly, transmission shifting smoothly, with the undercarriage as rust free as the day it was new, all while shining as brightly as the day they left the showroom after being exposed to ten years of mind numbing cold and the equivalent amount of salt that makes up the lake beds at Bonneville.
I work as a service consultant for Car Max here in the south. Even the new junk fails regularly down here, and the old "Value Max" cars that have more than 90k miles or are 10+ years old have laundry lists of needed repairs that had to be performed just to get them road worthy enough to sell. All of this where the days rarely get below the teens in the winter, and salt is kept strictly for your french fries.

Damn kids,...still using the "my Dad can beat up your dad" line of excuses to validate their point.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
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Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#34
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #34
madspeed1 said:
Whats the word on Demon 850's? Thats what this car has

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....
Click to expand...


The word is that it's probably too big for a street driven car.

How big is the engine? A car w/ an 850 CFM carburetor doesn't sound like it was ever intended to spend time in the winter bouncing off of guard rails in Pennsylvania.

This:

This is a good out of the box carburetor, that has really strong support from Summit.
This used to be a Holley design, but the hard heads wouldn't buy it so they (Holley) sold it to Summit.

The jets are accessed through the top, so no draining of fuel is required for a jet change, there are center hung floats like all the good carbs have, it has an electric choke, fuel level sight glasses on each bowl. Adjustable, and or tunable airbleeds and the carb is all aluminum. It is very close to good right out of the box, but takes standard Holley junk to tune it should you need to.

I have one of these on my junker. I have only had to change the jets once, and I only did that to lean it out so that it would work on my tiny assed engine. I get 23 MPG at 73 MPH w/ this thing it starts after one pat of the throttle after sitting all night, and fires straight off after restarting it hot. The best part,...is that it cost 259.00.

Can you even buy injectors for 259?
 

madspeed

Colonel Mustard
Founding Member
Nov 29, 1999
8,914
1,332
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a van down by the river
Sep 8, 2012
#35
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #35
Reason I ask about the Demon is thats whats on it and tuned with/for

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#36
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #36
madspeed1 said:
Reason I ask about the Demon is thats whats on it and tuned with/for

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....
Click to expand...

Yeah I got that.

I asked how big the engine was and what it was original build purpose. A 850 is a big assed carb regardless of what brand it is.
 

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
15 Year Member
Dec 19, 2010
5,721
4,244
224
Sep 8, 2012
#37
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #37
madmike1157 said:
The word is that it's probably too big for a street driven car.

How big is the engine? A car w/ an 850 CFM carburetor doesn't sound like it was ever intended to spend time in the winter bouncing off of guard rails in Pennsylvania.

This:

This is a good out of the box carburetor, that has really strong support from Summit.
This used to be a Holley design, but the hard heads wouldn't buy it so they (Holley) sold it to Summit.

The jets are accessed through the top, so no draining of fuel is required for a jet change, there are center hung floats like all the good carbs have, it has an electric choke, fuel level sight glasses on each bowl. Adjustable, and or tunable airbleeds and the carb is all aluminum. It is very close to good right out of the box, but takes standard Holley junk to tune it should you need to.

I have one of these on my junker. I have only had to change the jets once, and I only did that to lean it out so that it would work on my tiny assed engine. I get 23 MPG at 73 MPH w/ this thing it starts after one pat of the throttle after sitting all night, and fires straight off after restarting it hot. The best part,...is that it cost 259.00.

Can you even buy injectors for 259?
Click to expand...

Mike I bought one of those for the old chevy beater truck I sold last weekend. Got it on sale shipped to the door for $239 bucks. Pulled it ot of the box, dropped it on, ran like a champ. Damn fine little carb, I may put one on my son's 4cyl to v8 swap car if I can't scratch up efi parts.
 

madspeed

Colonel Mustard
Founding Member
Nov 29, 1999
8,914
1,332
204
a van down by the river
Sep 8, 2012
#38
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #38
Heres the basics of the build
Its well done, not hacked together...

Engine done by Fatboy Fabrications...looks like they do slot of high dollar high horse builds

New 302 block
Demon 850 Double Pumper
Barry Grant Electric Fuel Pump, Regulator,
Granatelli Tank Insert with ½ inch line from tank to engine
MSD Pro Billet Distributor,
MSD Digital 6 Ignition,
MSD Blaster 2 Coil,
MSD Plug Wires
Edelbrock Victor Jr Aluminum Intake
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads
Ford Motorsports Valve Covers
Anderson Motorsports Custom Grinded Camshaft
Crane Roller Rockers
Probe Forged Pistons
Balanced CrankMain Stud Girdle
N.O.S. Nitrous System with jets to 200hp (Purge Valve, Bottle Heater, Blow Off Valve)
Hedman Long Tube Headers
Dynomax Bullet Turndowns
Chrome One-Wire Alternator
March Pulleys Kit
Aluminum Radiator with Dual Electric Fans
Optima Yellow Top Battery mounted in
Taylor Stainless box in trunk
Battery Kill Switch at License plate

8.8 With C-Clip Eliminator
Auburn Posi Unit
4.10 GearsMoser 31 Spline Axles
Disc Brakes from SVO
Converted to 5-lug
Weld Draglites 15x10 & 15x3.5
Mickey Thompson Drag Radials
Lakewood Driveshaft Safety Loop

C4 Auto with Reverse Valve Pattern
PTC Torque Converter
4200 Stall
Hurst Shifter with Pistol Grip & Line Lock Installed
Pro Trans Brake
B&M Transmission Cooler

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....
 

85_SS_302_Coupe

it sucks (I know) to be on the receiving end
15 Year Member
Nov 11, 2003
6,945
1,598
223
Northern KY
Sep 8, 2012
#39
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #39
Well, in EFI's defense, i probably could've converted to EFI for what i paid for my custom carb...but i don't care. I'm hardcore like that
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 8, 2012
#40
  • Sep 8, 2012
  • #40
It's a drag car. Might be a nicely put together drag car, but a 4200 stall, 3 speed trans w/ a 4.10 rear gear is gonna be a pain in the ass to drive excepting saturday night cruise in duty. Forget the fact that the carb is enormo for a 302 based build,...I wouldn't wanna drive a 15x10/15x3.5 drag radial'd car anywhere except to the local track and back.
Call me a crazy ass old guy, I don't care......Driving a car set up for drag racing like that one has been would get older than me real fast.
 
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