Whos Carbed And Why? Looking For Input...

[madspeed]

thx madmike. ( you crazy ass old guy). I was thinking the same. By the way, my last car did have the same wheel setup and was a daily driver with no issues!

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....

 

[clement]

there is a lot more to carb sizing than just displacement. based on the converter, gear, heads, intake and exactly which cam is in it and what the compression is, it might run great. there is only one way to know.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

thx madmike. ( you crazy ass old guy). I was thinking the same. By the way, my last car did have the same wheel setup and was a daily driver with no issues!

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....

**muttering to myself after hocking up a huge hairball lugie, while walking around in my bathrobe and scratching.......

No Issues???,.....Yeah, I'll bet. As long as you considering handling like a 58 buick, and not being able to stop (because the little ass tires lock up in a hard brake) "No issues"

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Skinnies are great if you have heavy manual steering. I did get a harsh reality check one time driving a buddy's GT that had skinnies on front. A lady pulled out right in front of me, and i was instantly reminded that half the tire contact patch under the tires that do 70% of the stopping is not a great idea...the car stopped sliding about a foot from T boning her.

And as for carb sizing, i've said this before many times since getting my Pro Systems carb...it's all in the tuning. I honestly get a little disgusted when people post that stupid carb sizing math problem crap, because if making power was that simple we wouldn't be having this discussion. I went from a thoroughly tuned Holley 650dp to a custom wet flowed 780cfi Pro Systems carb, and the car is like night and day. Throttle response is better, drivability is better, cold starts are better, the idle is better. Now, that's not to say you can always assume that a bigger carb is better, but it shows that sometimes depending on the combo, you gotta let it eat. My car has been down for a thousand reasons since then so i haven't had it on the dyno, but i suspect that it's within a handful of HP from 400 at the wheels now.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

there is a lot more to carb sizing than just displacement. based on the converter, gear, heads, intake and exactly which cam is in it and what the compression is, it might run great. there is only one way to know.

What he said^^^Depending on what converter, gear, heads, intake, cam and compression it has......I'm sure that it'll behave perfectly on a -35 degree day in Transylvania Pennsylveinia Pennsylvaneia Zanduskywillboneya Pennsylvania on your way to work w/ all of that drag race junk on it.

 

[madspeed]

wow, now all of PA is getting boned by madmike... thx


Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Skinnies are great if you have heavy manual steering. I did get a harsh reality check one time driving a buddy's GT that had skinnies on front. A lady pulled out right in front of me, and i was instantly reminded that half the tire contact patch under the tires that do 70% of the stopping is not a great idea...the car stopped sliding about a foot from T boning her.

And as for carb sizing, i've said this before many times since getting my Pro Systems carb...it's all in the tuning. I honestly get a little disgusted when people post that stupid carb sizing math problem crap, because if making power was that simple we wouldn't be having this discussion. I went from a thoroughly tuned Holley 650dp to a custom wet flowed 780cfi Pro Systems carb, and the car is like night and day. Throttle response is better, drivability is better, cold starts are better, the idle is better. Now, that's not to say you can always assume that a bigger carb is better, but it shows that sometimes depending on the combo, you gotta let it eat. My car has been down for a thousand reasons since then so i haven't had it on the dyno, but i suspect that it's within a handful of HP from 400 at the wheels now.

I didn't come up w/ that "stupid carb math sizing thing",..Holley did.
Holley did it because to the average Joe bigger is better. The people that call summit on any given day planning on investing in a carburetor for a street driven car, need a point of reference. For someone like you and Clement who obviously know their way around a carburetor, the rule doesn't apply.
For the guy looking for advice on whether or not to use a carburetor at all, maybe it does.
AND,....For every guy that has a perfectly tuned well running carb, I'm sure there is at least one guy dumping gas down the intake that'll never get burned, winging the throttle to keep the plugs clean, dumping out black smoke all the way to the next red light.

 

[srtthis]

850 is honestly to big for that motor... Unless its pushing 15-16:1 it to big. The nasty ass small block in the race car is only a 1250 and that just went on this year to try and pick up another tenth or so to the 1/8.

With out knowing all the details I'd say around 750 would be better for it.

 

[N8Dogg98]

I am not carbed because I'm not a hillbilly

 

[madspeed]

Thanks for all the input. Ive decided to pass on this car. More due to the fact that it would need emissions testing in my area, and being converted= nope

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....

 

[N8Dogg98]

Thanks for all the input. Ive decided to pass on this car. More due to the fact that it would need emissions testing in my area, and being converted= nope

Sent from my rooted, rommed Galaxy Nexus....

Good news!!! You're not a hillbilly

 

[Boosted92LX]

Good news!!! You're not a hillbilly

Nate gets manicures..

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I didn't come up w/ that "stupid carb math sizing thing",..Holley did.
Holley did it because to the average Joe bigger is better. The people that call summit on any given day planning on investing in a carburetor for a street driven car, need a point of reference. For someone like you and Clement who obviously know their way around a carburetor, the rule doesn't apply.
For the guy looking for advice on whether or not to use a carburetor at all, maybe it does.
AND,....For every guy that has a perfectly tuned well running carb, I'm sure there is at least one guy dumping gas down the intake that'll never get burned, winging the throttle to keep the plugs clean, dumping out black smoke all the way to the next red light.

I didn't mean to sound like i was pointing that comment at you, i'm just saying it's not that simple. For the record, more times than not i recommend smaller carbs than bigger ones. It really comes down to the combo and what RPM range you plan on running in the most.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Good news!!! You're not a hillbilly

Go sit in a corner Nate!
You are not the one to talk when you're driving a car that the body styling engineers used this guy for inspiration:

View attachment 144141
** note....if you look close enough, you can just make out the SN 95 roof line coming off of Zoidbergs' fish eating lips

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I didn't mean to sound like i was pointing that comment at you, i'm just saying it's not that simple. For the record, more times than not i recommend smaller carbs than bigger ones. It really comes down to the combo and what RPM range you plan on running in the most.

Aww I don't care if it was. You have a point just the same. Typically, I answer a thread because I judge the individual asking the question depending on the question. FWIW, I wouldn't try to tell you anything about carbs, as I know from your posts that you have invested a fair amount into a race carb already. On the same note, not taking anything from the OP, I just judged him to need a little generic advice about carburetors.



Doesn't change the fact that Nate drives an ameoba

 

[jrichker]

How much does it cost to add the 70mm TB, the 30 lb injectors, and the 80mm MAF? How much did the intake cost on the "hot HCI" in the stated example ? Will the stock intank pump support the power that the new combo is capable of producing, and how much will it cost to replace it if it don't? Lastly,.....if I decided to kick it up a notch, or drop it back one for better fuel mileage,....will the $125.00 little black box in the above example require I revisit the red headed kid w/ braces for a retune?

madmike1157 You asked to it, here is is. All the parts are new purchased from the same vendor where possible. No eBay, no used parts, no swaps with your buddy who had a shed full of parts his wife told him to get rid of. This makes for an apples to apples comparison.

The custom dyno tune is listed as an option, since both plans will run reasonalbly well without it. Mass Air EFI has a fairly wide tolerance range for changes and modifications since it has the ablity to "adaptively learn" changes in sensors and configuration. A revist to the "Dyno Guy" shouldn't be needed unless drastic changes are made in the configuration.

Parts supplier is Summit Racing unless otherwise listed:

[The difference is $174.15 Given the increased fuel efficiency of EFI, that would easily be recovered by saving 50 gallons of gas in a 2 year period.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Ah, but the beauty is you don't need a $475 dyno session to tune a carb as long as you own a flathead screwdriver and a 10mm socket and invest about 10 minutes of reading into learning how to read spark plugs. You also don't need to spend $600 on a Demon when you can get a Holley 650dp for ~$350. Also i would opt for a Stealth intake which will save you nearly another $100 and is a better intake than the Air Gap. That list is made to be conveniently close in price, when reality is much much different. I bet i could easily and *safely* shave at least $1000 off that list and still do the swap "right".

 

[Boosted92LX]

I don't think I could shave a grand off, but a considerable amount, yes.

Edit: I can see why the same brand intakes where used, as stated, it's an apples to apples comparison. And that's fine to be fair, but I think David's point about not needing a dyno is the elephant in the room here. No way in hell would I give a dyno guy five bones to tune my carb.

Edit edit: That's IF I had a carb.. I have EFI on my current car.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I don't think I could shave a grand off, but a considerable amount, yes.

It's easier than it sounds, if you tune it yourself and save the $475, the $250 less on a Holley, another $90 off the intake, that's already over $800. Also it's very simple to make your own pickup to replace the EFI pump instead of spending all that cash on a sump. It can be done safely and reliably, or you could just swap the tank out for an '85 spec tank and skip a bunch of those little fees. I'd also opt for a mechanical pump and swap over the timing cover, but that's personal preference. Plus, instead of going the Duraspark route, you could spend $145 on a HEI distributor, which will save you another $35 for the Duraspark and shave a considerable amount off the wiring bill at the same time. So, add all that up and i'd be damn near right at the $1000 mark.

 

[jrichker]

Ah, but the beauty is you don't need a $475 dyno session to tune a carb as long as you own a flathead screwdriver and a 10mm socket and invest about 10 minutes of reading into learning how to read spark plugs. You also don't need to spend $600 on a Demon when you can get a Holley 650dp for ~$350. Also i would opt for a Stealth intake which will save you nearly another $100 and is a better intake than the Air Gap. That list is made to be conveniently close in price, when reality is much much different. I bet i could easily and *safely* shave at least $1000 off that list and still do the swap "right".

This is an open invitation to do a like comparison. We all would benefit if you can go off and create a Bill of Materials from reliable vendors that shows savings over what was listed. Until that happens, it's just talk...


One thing that puzzles me is that there is a $300 difference between carb and EFI intakes. Granted the EFI intakes use a Tuned Runner design to get more torque, but there isn't $300 more engineering and aluminum in an EFI intake manifold.