Will this get me over 400 hp?

[ID89GT]

I been lookin for a good street setup for my car, and have been doing some reading. I want about 400-450 hp/tq. and will be street driven only. What i'm thinking of doing is..

347 rotating assembly
Custom cam
AFR 185 cc heads
Kenne Bell SC


I have long tube headers and the GT40 intake already.. and I know I will need supporting mods.. Just wondering if that will get me where I want to be roughly?

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Yup, should see 450rwhp/rwtq with ease with that set up. I'd go with the Flowzilla inlet just to make sure you're taking full advantage of the added displacement and of course make sure you choose the GT40 lower. Then set some money aside for some good tires....you're gonna need them!

 

[ID89GT]

Haha sweet deal, I was reading a lot of the stuff you posted a while back, which is one of the main reasons I want to go with the KB.

 

[mob]

Yes you should be over 400hp with a setup like that, but I personally think you can do better than a KB on a 5.0, save the KB for the DOHC 4.6. Save some money and go turbo or just go S-trim. For the money I am not impressed with a KB on a 5.0 but than again I haven't driven/owned a 5.0 with a KB.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Haha sweet deal, I was reading a lot of the stuff you posted a while back, which is one of the main reasons I want to go with the KB.

Low end torque in king. The Kenne Bell may not make the most horsepower of the bunch, but it'll get you to your projected goals. And nothing....not Centrifugals, not Turbo's....nothing touches a Positive Displacement charger for lower-end/mid-range torque production.

If you're looking for a fun street car, this is the ticket!!!

 

[ID89GT]

Do you think I would need an aftermarket block with a setup like that?

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Do you think I would need an aftermarket block with a setup like that?

Not for those power levels. The stock Ford block is good as a ballpark somewhere in the 500-550hp range. It should live many years at 450hp.

 

[blackened88lx]

Not for those power levels. The stock Ford block is good as a ballpark somewhere in the 500-550hp range. It should live many years at 450hp.

I agree The whole stock shortblock will be fine. People are pushing stock blocks to some scary levels now. There's one over at theturboforums that just put down 815rwhp through a glide It's been making over 600 for years.

I have a set of almost new AFR185s that I need to get rid of

 

[92GreenGT]

And nothing....not Centrifugals, not Turbo's....nothing touches a Positive Displacement charger for lower-end/mid-range torque production.

I don't believe that. Maybe in the low low end of the torque curve(under 3,000 rpm) but mid range I def don't believe.

Your car makes 465trq from your sig, peak numbers of course, but do you have a dyno graph to post to let me see the actual curve? My car makes 612trq at 3950rpm and 400trq at 2700rpm. As stated I could see a KB 5 liter making more torque till around 3000 then its all over.

 

[90lxcoupe]

There's one over at theturboforums that just put down 815rwhp through a glide It's been making over 600 for years.

Thats awesome, he have an engine diaper? i would. PM me a link to that

I don't believe that. Maybe in the low low end of the torque curve(under 3,000 rpm) but mid range I def don't believe.

Your car makes 465trq from your sig, peak numbers of course, but do you have a dyno graph to post to let me see the actual curve? My car makes 612trq at 3950rpm and 400trq at 2700rpm. As stated I could see a KB 5 liter making more torque till around 3000 then its all over.

agree 100%

 

[tannerc91gt]

Low end torque in king. The Kenne Bell may not make the most horsepower of the bunch, but it'll get you to your projected goats. And nothing....not Centrifugals, not Turbo's....nothing touches a Positive Displacement charger for lower-end/mid-range torque production.

If you're looking for a fun street car, this is the ticket!!!

 

[25thmustang]

I know people love low end grunt, but here is my input.

How much is too much? 300 rwtq will eat tires through 3rd gear... having tons of low end tq seems useless unless you can plant all of it.

 

[92GreenGT]

That's what suspension mods and big DR's are for at the track.

It's quite fun on the street, with the 3.55's in the rear mine won't spin in 3rd gear unless I "make it" spin. By the time you're in third gear you're rolling along pretty good. With 3.27's it wouldn't be as bad, second gear is a chance..sometimes it hooks and sometimes it doesn't..when it doesn't, it leaves marks as long as you give it fuel.

Pretty fun really, lol.

 

[cenok is family]

gawd i want a turbo

 

[NIKwoaC]

Thats awesome, he have an engine diaper? i would. PM me a link to that

Screw the PM, post that link up here!

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I don't believe that. Maybe in the low low end of the torque curve(under 3,000 rpm) but mid range I def don't believe.

Your car makes 465trq from your sig, peak numbers of course, but do you have a dyno graph to post to let me see the actual curve? My car makes 612trq at 3950rpm and 400trq at 2700rpm. As stated I could see a KB 5 liter making more torque till around 3000 then its all over.

My scanner isn't working currently, but I'll be happy to read it out to you....

Lets first take into account the differences in our engines. I have no idea what's done to your car, but I'll assume you're working with at least 302ci of displacement (which is already much larger than mine) and god knows what bolt-ons. My engine with the exception of home ported factory heads is essentially stock with bolt ons. My horsepower peeks at about 5,300RPM where I'm seeing 410hp. My torque curve starts at about 2,100RPM where I'm already seeing 430tq and peeks at 465tq by 4,000RPM
.
...and that's all from a measly Eaton M90S and 4.6L of displacement.

So you tell me....how's my little PD blower doing in comparison?

Also, a lot of you guys are only looking at this in one dimension. All you see is blowing tires off at WOT, but you're only getting half the picture. Do you have any idea how satisfactory it is for me to be able to out pull most of these little econobox rice rockets (and even stock/bolt on Mustangs) while I'm running uphill, in O/D and they're forced to downshift 2-gears and slam the accelerator to the floor to keep up?

All that torque not only makes for the most fun at the lower and mid range ends of the RPM spectrum, but it provides unmatched drivability as well. No lag, no power spikes, no surges of power just a hard hitting, smooth, seamless, fully controllable pull from start to finish!

If one can't help but blow the tires off on a positive displacement blown vehicle, then its not the cars fault my friends, its the drivers. My power delivery is all fully controllable by my right foot. There's no waiting for Engine RPM, or turbo spool, no pre-planning my passing to compensate for momentary lag....just throw and go!

And that to me, is the definition of the perfect street car!

What....you've never heard of project goats? They're very popular here in Canada.

 

[90lxcoupe]

Also, a lot of you guys are only looking at this in one dimension. All you see is blowing tires off at WOT, but you're only getting half the picture. Do you have any idea how satisfactory it is for me to be able to out pull most of these little econobox rice rockets (and even stock/bolt on Mustangs) while I'm running uphill, in O/D and they're forced to downshift 2-gears and slam the accelerator to the floor to keep up?

All that torque not only makes for the most fun at the lower and mid range ends of the RPM spectrum, but it provides unmatched drivability as well. No lag, no power spikes, no surges of power just a hard hitting, smooth, seamless, fully controllable pull from start to finish!

Dont get me wrong here, but i think that you are looking at this one dimensionally, yea the eaton makes excellent tq, i loved myne in my lightning, it was awesome. But a properly sized turbo motor like 92greengt's is unbeatable from 3000 up, a properly sized turbo will make more average tq and peak power than any power adder at equal boost levels.

His car is a perfect example of a properly sized turbo with minimal lag and a TON of tq. 600 ft lbs at 3900, thats awesome. Just imagine putting the car into 3rd or 4th and slowly feeding it throttle, you would barely feel the lag and the motor would be pulling like a jet

 

[NIKwoaC]

Gearbanger, you make PD blowers sound so appealing! I only wish there were as many different options in PD blowers for pushrod cars as there are for mod motors. I keep waiting to see a PD blower retrofit kit for some of these new PD 'chargers to bolt onto a pushrod.

 

[25thmustang]

My scanner isn't working currently, but I'll be happy to read it out to you....

Lets first take into account the differences in our engines. I have no idea what's done to your car, but I'll assume you're working with at least 302ci of displacement (which is already much larger than mine) and god knows what bolt-ons. My engine with the exception of home ported factory heads is essentially stock with bolt ons. My horsepower peeks at about 5,300RPM where I'm seeing 410hp. My torque curve starts at about 2,100RPM where I'm already seeing 430tq and peeks at 465tq by 4,000RPM
.
...and that's all from a measly Eaton M90S and 4.6L of displacement.

So you tell me....how's my little PD blower doing in comparison?

Also, a lot of you guys are only looking at this in one dimension. All you see is blowing tires off at WOT, but you're only getting half the picture. Do you have any idea how satisfactory it is for me to be able to out pull most of these little econobox rice rockets (and even stock/bolt on Mustangs) while I'm running uphill, in O/D and they're forced to downshift 2-gears and slam the accelerator to the floor to keep up?

All that torque not only makes for the most fun at the lower and mid range ends of the RPM spectrum, but it provides unmatched drivability as well. No lag, no power spikes, no surges of power just a hard hitting, smooth, seamless, fully controllable pull from start to finish!

If one can't help but blow the tires off on a positive displacement blown vehicle, then its not the cars fault my friends, its the drivers. My power delivery is all fully controllable by my right foot. There's no waiting for Engine RPM, or turbo spool, no pre-planning my passing to compensate for momentary lag....just throw and go!

And that to me, is the definition of the perfect street car!


What....you've never heard of project goats? They're very popular here in Canada.

Yes having an unsuspecting car is fun, trust me I know all about it!

Huge torque down low is nice for passing at 1500 RPM, trust me I drive my dads Cummins enough to know that, but I does that make for a much more fun street car? I gues not having 400 ft lbs of tq at an RPM I rarely drive at, I wouldn't know.

I'm not attacking your car, or why you did it, I know why and I can surely see how much you enjoy it... I guess I just wonder when having too much tq, too low in the RPM does it not help anymore? Does 800 ft lbs at 1000 RPM make for an even better driver?

I guess I am just not convinced on the roots style blowers for the 5.0s (I do know yours isnt a 5.0).

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Dont get me wrong here, but i think that you are looking at this one dimensionally, yea the eaton makes excellent tq, i loved myne in my lightning, it was awesome. But a properly sized turbo motor like 92greengt's is unbeatable from 3000 up, a properly sized turbo will make more average tq and peak power than any power adder at equal boost levels.

His car is a perfect example of a properly sized turbo with minimal lag and a TON of tq. 600 ft lbs at 3900, thats awesome. Just imagine putting the car into 3rd or 4th and slowly feeding it throttle, you would barely feel the lag and the motor would be pulling like a jet

I don't get you wrong at all. I as much as stated that the PD blown cars were at their best in the low and mid ranges. And I don't argue that through the mid to upper ranges all the way to red line that a turbo rules the roost. And yes, I’ll also agree that the Turbo set up will more than likely produce the most average torque and horsepower.....but only because they produce so much more in the mid and upper ranges as stated. Average horsepower looks impressive on a dyno graph side by side comparison, but It doesn’t exactly tell the whole story.

Even comparing your Lightning to his car really doesn’t do it justice, when you counsider your lightning easily outweighs a fox body Mustang by 1,000-1,300lbs and has a good 25% drive train loss to contend with. It’s an even more apples and oranges comparison than my Cougar is.

And as bitching as 92GreenGT's set up sounds....I'm willing to bet there's a lot more to it than boost through a stock or near stock engine.

I really don't like trying to compare power levels between my car and his, because it’s obvious that they aren't even in the same league build and horsepower capability wise...but the very fact that my engine with an obvious displacement advantage and considerably smaller power adder and conservative components and tune is able to churn out that much power in the low and mid ranges (handily besting his much more powerful combination in those areas) should speak volumes for the potential and capability of this type of power adder in the ranges I suggested.

I mean...a larger more capable engine like a 347 stroker, with a proper set of aftermarket heads and intake will only magnify these results even further. And if my car performs as well as it does at nearly 4,200lbs (with driver) can you imagine how well his Fox will perform not having to lug around the additional 600-800lbs weight?

Gearbanger, you make PD blowers sound so appealing! I only wish there were as many different options in PD blowers for pushrod cars as there are for mod motors. I keep waiting to see a PD blower retrofit kit for some of these new PD 'chargers to bolt onto a pushrod.

Yes, I'll agree....pushrod selection is limited. But for what he's after, the Kenne Bell set up will do the job with ease.

What good is having a 600-1000hp capable turbo set up on the car when his goals are only somewhere in the 450hp range? Sure, I suppose he could size the set up with a smaller turbo (which would enable the power to come on sooner), but then he gives up power and torque all the way across the board by doing so....not just at the top end.

I just don't have the patience for finicky power adders and unpredictable power production. By far, the best thing about the Positive Displacement set up (besides the copious amounts of torque it produce in the lower ranges) is the fact that you don't even notice that it’s there.

A PD blown small block feels like a big block. Right from idle to red line it changes the characteristics of the engine completely. Turbo and centrifugal cars no matter how well thought out, or how attention to detail they are, always still feel like a small block with a power adder.

Don't get me wrong...there are times where I'd love to feel that sudden "rush" of violent power in the mid and upper ranges when the strait always hit, but for all intensive purposes....power bands like that aren't used very often. Where your car spend more time accelerating from a stop and lugging around in the lower ranges than any other and where IMO the additional power is most welcome.

Now if we're talking racing at the track...then that's a whole other ball game altogether. But the perspective I'm speaking from is that of a street car.