1988 turbo 331 TW heads mspnp2

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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#1
Ok...so it's been a very long time since I touched any of the tuning on my car. I really don't have any data logs...or tube files to upload tonite.

Just wanted everyone to know I'm joining the party.

I stopped last year because I wasn't sure about my timing. I set it with timing fixed to 20 degrees....but my balancer didn't have a timing mark on it. ( had to use a piston stop and mark it ).

Fast forward to today.... the timing is running at about 40 degrees at idle...according to my msd timing tape. Im going to get into it tomorrow and post a data log and the tune file.
 
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90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
3,793
3,266
173
41
#2
Set the timing...I've got a data log and tune file I'll upload soon. This video is of me trying to set the timing correctly.

View: https://youtu.be/4XhbdWXNBug

Edit; I was at 40 degrees at the balancer. I ended up turning the distributor with the offset at 10° to get to 20 fixed. Idle Afr is about 13.5 ...
 

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
Dec 26, 2016
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Cordova, TN
#4
Why run locked timing? That's so 1960. How modified is your car? If it's not blown or have some huge roller cam, I'd mimic a stock timing curve. There's no set rule, each engine wants what it wants. Same with the idle AFR. I played with both until I got the most solid idle with the best vacuum signal.

On my 85 with a 302 and Stage 2 TFS Cam, it idles best with about 25-28 degrees at idle. Right off idle it drops down to about 20 degrees, then ramps quickly up to 36 all in by 2500 (5 speed car, an auto may not like that much that quick) Total timing is pretty easy to find by it not pinging. Any reasonable head should probably not need more than 36 total. It may need less.

I see the turbo. Still, idle and high vacuum timing has nothing to do with boost. Just make sure you tune your tables when you're in boost to remove timing to a safe amount. You'll probably find quite a bit of power and fuel economy by maximizing timing in the non-boost areas.

Then, there's vacuum advance. When the engine is cruising in a light load, high vacuum scenario, it can take a LOT more timing. I think my timing goes all the way to 46 degrees in some of the areas I identified as cruise areas in the map. (I run old Holley Commander 950 setup). I also run as lean as 16.5 in these areas. The changes made a HUGE difference in the torque helping it pull at light throttle in 5th and really helped the mileage cruising down the interstate.

The big thing is to make sure you have exact TDC marked on your balancer then synch what the computer says the timing is to what the engine shows. I'm not sure how that's down on a MS, but on the Holley I just set all the timing to 24 and then checked with a timing light, by revving it up to 2500, 3500 and 5000 to make sure it's not wandering.

I had that same steering wheel on an 83 Regal! I had the CLUB on it, but didn't like the way it indented the foam, so I would hook it thru the spokes. The cut the spoke and stole my car!
 
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a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
6,898
4,065
204
29
Hillsborough county
#5
He set the timing to a fixed value in the software then adjusted the distributor to get to that value... just like you would pull the spout to fix the timing with a stock ecu.

Now that he has the timing set he can change it back to 'use table' and run the timing curve he has programmed.
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
3,793
3,266
173
41
#6
Why run locked timing? That's so 1960. How modified is your car? If it's not blown or have some huge roller cam, I'd mimic a stock timing curve. There's no set rule, each engine wants what it wants. Same with the idle AFR. I played with both until I got the most solid idle with the best vacuum signal.

On my 85 with a 302 and Stage 2 TFS Cam, it idles best with about 25-28 degrees at idle. Right off idle it drops down to about 20 degrees, then ramps quickly up to 36 all in by 2500 (5 speed car, an auto may not like that much that quick) Total timing is pretty easy to find by it not pinging. Any reasonable head should probably not need more than 36 total. It may need less.

I see the turbo. Still, idle and high vacuum timing has nothing to do with boost. Just make sure you tune your tables when you're in boost to remove timing to a safe amount. You'll probably find quite a bit of power and fuel economy by maximizing timing in the non-boost areas.

Then, there's vacuum advance. When the engine is cruising in a light load, high vacuum scenario, it can take a LOT more timing. I think my timing goes all the way to 46 degrees in some of the areas I identified as cruise areas in the map. (I run old Holley Commander 950 setup). I also run as lean as 16.5 in these areas. The changes made a HUGE difference in the torque helping it pull at light throttle in 5th and really helped the mileage cruising down the interstate.

The big thing is to make sure you have exact TDC marked on your balancer then synch what the computer says the timing is to what the engine shows. I'm not sure how that's down on a MS, but on the Holley I just set all the timing to 24 and then checked with a timing light, by revving it up to 2500, 3500 and 5000 to make sure it's not wandering.

I had that same steering wheel on an 83 Regal! I had the CLUB on it, but didn't like the way it indented the foam, so I would hook it thru the spokes. The cut the spoke and stole my car!
Yup...turbo with a xe282hr camshaft and TW heads...ported Systemax intake...75mm TB. This is a 5 speed.

He set the timing to a fixed value in the software then adjusted the distributor to get to that value... just like you would pull the spout to fix the timing with a stock ecu.

Now that he has the timing set he can change it back to 'use table' and run the timing curve he has programmed.
Steve, I didn't even expect you to check in here this weekend ( figured you'd be elbows deep on your project ). I'm trying to get this thing to idle smoother and find decent vacuum. The tune file hasn't changed since we worked on it last. ( about a year ago )

To those that don't know, this is an incomplete tune that was worked on for 6 hrs. I didn't have wifi and was getting a slow connection over my hot spot and had a power supply issue to my mspnp2. I had a couple mechanical issues that stalled the tuning process. Those are fixed now.

If it dries up outside I'll get a driving data log. I'll also be working on the ve table and trying to bring the idle down a bit.
 
Last edited:

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
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#7
I get email updates when someone posts in this forum.

I will look at the tune again whilst drinking coffee in the morning and see what I come up with.
 

droopie85gt

Hookers and Beer for life!
Dec 26, 2016
715
465
93
Cordova, TN
#8
My Bad....too much coffee this morning. I misunderstood the part about locking the timing. Carry on! Looks like a good project!
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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#10
OK so i see some things that needed some adjusting, do you have the WIFi up yet???
Yes. I have Fios now. Had to help the kiddo with math homework and studying for a test tomorrow. Too late to fire Dusty up. I'll load and log it tomorrow.
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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#11
Here's a log idling. The AFR readings started going lean. I can say one thing, the idle sounds ridiculous with this tune. Data log looks a lot smoother in a lot of ways. I can't wait to get this thing situated.
 

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90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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#13
Good... very good. Lean is like 17...to 16. I know it's idle so it doesn't mean that much. The car is happier... but I'd be happier if it was a little fatter.

The exhaust sounds choppy as hell. The cam is coming alive.
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
Mod Dude
Apr 6, 2011
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#14
Lean idle makes the exhaust note deeper and more aggressive, I will take a look when I get a minute.
How does she idle better? Still hunting?
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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#15
Lean idle makes the exhaust note deeper and more aggressive, I will take a look when I get a minute.
How does she idle better? Still hunting?
Still hunts a little. It does idle better though and a few hundred rpms lower.

I took a video but it'll take about an hour to upload to YT.
 

90sickfox

I didn't really have an issue with the stink...
SN Certified Technician
Mar 2, 2015
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#19
It's the on3 3in downpipe and 2.5 inch y pipe into Kooks resonators and SLP 2.5in stainless IRS tail pipes.

The exhaust may change with junkmaster 40s and a high flow 3 inch catalytic converter.