Build Thread '83 T-top Coupe - Welding Holes in My Rear

[Davedacarpainter]

*Awwwwww,....now look what you've gone and done Dave,.....opened a can of "Mike Soapbox Rant", and now it's spilling all over the place.....


What a bunch of malarkey. I haven't seen this much nonsensical rambling since re-reading one of my old posts.

You're saying the you chose this engine to keep yourself from getting all " off the deep end" with a 351 based build?

A 1000 HP Windsor would've been no less over the top than a 400 hp 3.8. The steps that you'll have to take to keep that little engine happy with that much power will be more than a tick over routine maintenance.

For one thing, Once you pulley that blower to make the boost necessary to make that much power, it'll always be that way......Unlike a turbo with a waste gate, there's no adjustable "daily driver mode" once a roots supercharger is set to full kill.

Big boost means that there'll always be that need to feed the engine the octane to keep it all together..( a condition that I'm all too familiar with). One way or the other, you'll have to deal with that monkey. If that means checking the reservoir in the trunk to make sure it's full of water/meth, adding several gallons of toluene /race gas to each fill up,
or simply being able to add 12 ounces of vroom-vroom to your tank,..you're probably gonna have to do it.

Oklahoma gets hot, Roots blowers get hot. Roots blowers in Oklahoma get hotter. That little aluminum box on your engine will heat soak....Ford knew that. But they only built that engine to put out 200 hp. And Inter cooling designed to cool down a modest power level was well within their design objectives for a daily drivable, warrantable engine package.
But, Yours will be double that..

With all that extra power, the need to keep everything cool goes up at some exponential number I'm sure. Engine temp, and Intake air temp are both gonna require a lot of attention from the aftermarket to keep everything in check.

I applaud your decision to travel the path you're going, I don't have to tell you that I was more than thrilled when you chose that engine over a Windsor "anything" build....

But at the same time, you are going down a road that less than single digit percentages of the Ford fanatic have the balls to travel down...They don't know that engine, They don't wanna know that engine, and they ain't willing to try either....it's all too easy to stay in the comfort zone of familiarity.
"Weak?"......time to face reality Dave........
You did this to keep yourself from building another 1000 hp Windsor, because it'd be just another 1000 hp Windsor.

Lol, no, missed it.

I’m building this because I get to take out my engine building fantasies on an engine that won’t have so much power in it that I can’t daily drive it.

 

[droopie85gt]

Go big or go home. The rest of us can learn from your mistakes.

I think you're doing a sensible, albeit, out of the box build. Put the money in the right places. Have reasonable expectations. Put up with the peanut gallery. Well, that last part will drive you crazy! I'd just build it then come back and show us what you done did! Or else, you have to put up with all of us and whomever wanders in here by mistake!

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Lol, no, missed it.

I’m building this because I get to take out my engine building fantasies on an engine that won’t have so much power in it that I can’t daily drive it.

But that's what I'm saying..power is relative..you can get a Honda buzz bomb to make 400 HP, but the end result will also be as unfriendly to the daily drive as a 1000 HP Windsor is.

I'll bet the monsters engine makes close to 400 hp, ( it will if I can put 10 psi back in it) and this from an engine designed to make 125.

It is driveable, as I've demonstrated, but will eventually consume itself if I attempt to get in it daily.
Yet, It doesn't get hot, and it'll sit in Alabama traffic on a summer day...

Right up until the day it won't.

Again,..I'm with you...A stroked, huffed version of a 3.8 is only second on the " You never see that done" list of engine choices in a fox, and I think you'll come away grinning the very first time you get to plant ( and keep planted) your right foot.

Instant everything,..boost, power, torque, and that noise.......the one that you'll hear the minute you do the same in an 03/04 Cobra.

 

[bird_dog0347]

I've had a ROUGH couple of days work wise... I call it "The Dumb" and it's running rampant at my work. It's been tough on me, high stress, long hours, trying to make sure I'm happy when around family not only cause they make me happy but because they deserve that from me... All that said, The quote from @madmike1157 below kinda made me laugh enough to forget about the dumb for a while, so thanks Mike!

"*Awwwwww,....now look what you've gone and done Dave,.....opened a can of "Mike Soapbox Rant", and now it's spilling all over the place....."

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I've had a ROUGH couple of days work wise... I call it "The Dumb" and it's running rampant at my work. It's been tough on me, high stress, long hours, trying to make sure I'm happy when around family not only cause they make me happy but because they deserve that from me... All that said, The quote from @madmike1157 below kinda made me laugh enough to forget about the dumb for a while, so thanks Mike!

"*Awwwwww,....now look what you've gone and done Dave,.....opened a can of "Mike Soapbox Rant", and now it's spilling all over the place....."

Always glad to be able to brighten your day sir...you gotta know,.... It's partly why I play in this sand box,...I'm the class clown.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

FYI, i've been busy with the mundane chores and doing a side job at night (2017 camaro).

Saturday morning I'll hopefully have the engine down to the block.

The one good machine shop in town has a waiting list...... Oh well, so,I'll wait. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a scheduled date for the block's time at the spa.

So, photos this weekend.

 

[95BlueStallion]

Not like you cant buy up your parts while you wait...

 

[Davedacarpainter]

Not like you cant buy up your parts while you wait...

HA! It's EXACTLY like I can't buy up my parts while I wait!

The rotating assembly is going to be about $2700. The heads will be another $1800. The supercharger will be about the same as the rotating assembly. I think the machine shop will want a little money as well. Then there's all that ARP crap to buy. Long tubes, high volume oil pump, etc, etc.....

Hopefully by next spring all I'll have to worry about is the TKO500, clutch, etc, etc.....

I'm going to blow money on ME! Woohoo!.

 

[a91what]

We are going live vicariously through you for a bit then Dave. Cuz well ya know I aiint got play money like that.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

We are going live vicariously through you for a bit then Dave. Cuz well ya know I aiint got play money like that.

I won't all at once either. It'll take the entire winter and in to spring to do this.

First thing is the block servicing. Dipped, line bored main, decked, honing (or whatever it needs), lifter bores at least checked. I'll probably get the machine shop to install the cam bearings, they make me paranoid.

Next spring I'll start collecting the parts for the body, floorboard, sfc's and other bracing, front subframe, etc...

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I won't all at once either. It'll take the entire winter and in to spring to do this.

First thing is the block servicing. Dipped, line bored main, decked, honing (or whatever it needs), lifter bores at least checked. I'll probably get the machine shop to install the cam bearings, they make me paranoid.

Next spring I'll start collecting the parts for the body, floorboard, sfc's and other bracing, front subframe, etc...

You'll need Your stroker assy first.
They will not bore hone the block w/o the actual piston to work off of. And you'll want the Pistons after that to get at least a couple of mocked up to check how far down in the hole they are when assembled to determine deck height before they'll deck the block. ( that is if you want a zero deck)

I believe that you said you are buying a stroker assy, so rods, pistons and crank are coming from there and will not need machining. You are also getting heads from an outside source, or the ones you have, sent out, And they'll come back done as well.
That leaves a block that can only be cleaned, and checked for integrity, and Line bored/honed if it needs it.
Everything else is gonna wait on that stroker assy before they can do anything else. I don't think they'll even install the freeze plugs, or the cam bearings because of the upcoming metal bath from the bore/hone/deck processes.
Since you said they're making you wait, I think you'd be better off biting your first bullet, and buying your stroker assy before you go in there so they can do everything all at once.

Oh yeah,.......and the single most important thing you need to know before ordering the stroker kit....is how big your combustion chambers are/are gonna be.

Don't be like Mike...

He ordered his Pistons thinking his chambers were one size, and when they actually measured them, they were 10 cc's smaller than he thought they were....10.7 compression with a forced induction power adder will have you taking up a lot of bandwidth here btching about detonation.

 

[95BlueStallion]

If for some crazy reason a high volume Melling oil pump from a 302 is the same as a 3.8, then I have you covered there. Mine wouldnt fit with my oil pan, so Im just running a stocker and have the high volume sitting in a box.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

If for some crazy reason a high volume Melling oil pump from a 302 is the same as a 3.8, then I have you covered there. Mine wouldnt fit with my oil pan, so Im just running a stocker and have the high volume sitting in a box.

Unless your oil pump is external, then no it don't fit.

 

[95BlueStallion]

Unless your oil pump is external, then no it don't fit.

Meh, wishful thinking.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

You'll need Your stroker assy first.
They will not bore hone the block w/o the actual piston to work off of. And you'll want the Pistons after that to get at least a couple of mocked up to check how far down in the hole they are when assembled to determine deck height before they'll deck the block. ( that is if you want a zero deck)

I believe that you said you are buying a stroker assy, so rods, pistons and crank are coming from there and will not need machining. You are also getting heads from an outside source, or the ones you have, sent out, And they'll come back done as well.
That leaves a block that can only be cleaned, and checked for integrity, and Line bored/honed if it needs it.
Everything else is gonna wait on that stroker assy before they can do anything else. I don't think they'll even install the freeze plugs, or the cam bearings because of the upcoming metal bath from the bore/hone/deck processes.
Since you said they're making you wait, I think you'd be better off biting your first bullet, and buying your stroker assy before you go in there so they can do everything all at once.

Oh yeah,.......and the single most important thing you need to know before ordering the stroker kit....is how big your combustion chambers are/are gonna be.

Don't be like Mike...

He ordered his Pistons thinking his chambers were one size, and when they actually measured them, they were 10 cc's smaller than he thought they were....10.7 compression with a forced induction power adder will have you taking up a lot of bandwidth here btching about detonation.

Since the new pistons will have the same diameter as the old ones, do I still need the new rotating assembly?

Last time I did this I had the shop build the short block so they got all of the new pieces with it.

Other than the cam bearings, I want to build this one.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

If for some crazy reason a high volume Melling oil pump from a 302 is the same as a 3.8, then I have you covered there. Mine wouldnt fit with my oil pan, so Im just running a stocker and have the high volume sitting in a box.

Like mike said, it’s external.

Which brings up a question. Why did ford run a coolant line passage around the pump? The oil filter actually attaches to the coolant adapter. Is this some sort of oil cooler? I’ll dig up a picture.

Oh, btw, new dog.

 

[Chuckman]

This is going to piss mike off but I just need to say it....

For the kind of money you're putting into this v6, you know you could have just found a good explorer motor, thrown a cam in it and put a used v3 kit on it and exceeded those power goals for less hassle and money right? I know it wouldn't be "unique" but I thought a big reason why you were going the v6 route was cause you could get the tbird motor running cheap, instead of just being "unique for unique's sake".

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Well Dave? @Davedacarpainter
Did you do the S/C engine for the sake of individuality, or because they were all out of cheap assed belly buttons the day you made your choice?

 

[jrichker]

If for some crazy reason a high volume Melling oil pump from a 302 is the same as a 3.8, then I have you covered there. Mine wouldnt fit with my oil pan, so Im just running a stocker and have the high volume sitting in a box.

That's why my previous Mustang had several ball peen hammer dimples in the oil pan... Bang on the pan and then heat the hammered places and let them cool slowly...

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Since the new pistons will have the same diameter as the old ones, do I still need the new rotating assembly?

Last time I did this I had the shop build the short block so they got all of the new pieces with it.

Other than the cam bearings, I want to build this one.

Guess that'll be dependent on how worn past spec the current cylinders are. If they are too worn to stay standard, then you'll have to bore it. Regardless every machine shop I've ever used has finish honed the cylinder using the piston measurements as a reference. It'll also depend on the piston alloy. A true forged 2618 alloy piston is honed way looser than a high silicone version because of greater thermal expansion. ( that's one of the reasons my engine is so noisy,...piston rock in the bores makes a knock-knock-knock noise)

You'll need to know first if the cylinders are ok to get a standard set, then order your pistons so that they can finish the cylinder dependent on the piston type.