For God sake no.
We constructed a steel HB puller for taking them out.
For in... actually we 'hammered' them on snout, but with bare hands as far as they went. Afterward they were carefully pulled on with crank bolt and impact gun (AOD).
Rockauto up to today did not request a goods return, and credit was issued 02/28, so I suppose I will keep it as sentimental value
Okay, horror story continues...
A little bit refresh of all three balancers:
1. Ford OEM with bad rubber: a bit shaky engine, wobbles
2. Autotechnica from Rockauto: was still (no wobble), but shake engine 1200-1400rpm
3. Dorman from Germany: wobbles heavily, engine is perfectly still, got knock
BTW pulley is turning perfectly still & belt glides superb on ALL three balancers!
Before we took off "new" Dorman HB, we measured a play at front face of HB bore on that Dorman HB (so flat face behind pulley which we took of):
It has 10 hundreds of mm front face play, which equals 0.0039"
Took Dorman out.
Crank snout and keyway have no visible damage or wear, would say "as new" condition.
Returned back Ford OEM HB. Knock is still there, HB is wobbling, engine shakes a bit on idle. That is why we started HB story in first place. ***But also, an occassional metallic chirping sound is back after a month, and it is clearly caused by tired Ford OEM HB*** (maybe it's important info for someone chasing chirping sound)
Where to **** does the knock come from?!?
Calmed down, cleared mind from possible crankshaft problems... deep breathe...
I fired the car and now we open our ears wide to detect knock source. Went under car, under bellhousing, took bellhous cover off... no distinctive source.
Mechanic almost on start told me "upper part of engine, passanger side". There was always a little bit of silent slight valvetrain noise on startup. Possible.
As the engine was warming, in few minutes knock volume was geting lower.
While still clear knocking, I varied RPM. Knock is clear from ~1000-~1700, after that it runs superb, no noise. Mechanic also told me "hmm, it is also oil pressure dependant".
Conclusion, he would blame hydro-lifter(s).
Possible? Car was not properly droven since this balancer "show"
Car heated up to operating temperature, works quiet as a japanese import
In process when listening to knock temperature stable in middle, oil pressure also. Both needles rock steady in dash.
Any suggestions?
I am not an expert mechanic, but I had lower intake down, teared down and cleaned by hand every single lifter. They look and resisted full of oil same to me, pushrods dirty but straight.
I done valve lash job two or three times on cold engine before closing intake, just to be fail-safe
Oil is 5W-30, filter is K&N PS3001 PRO.
I must be careful due to waiting-to-fall-apart OEM HB, but shall I take it for a proper drive to give thoose lifers some oil?
Mechanic told me to drive it, if it will behave like now - valvetrain. Apparently if it is from valvetrain and stops with warm oil, no harm should be done.
If knock would get worse, then............yall know.....
A little bit refresh of all three balancers:
1. Ford OEM with bad rubber: a bit shaky engine, wobbles
2. Autotechnica from Rockauto: was still (no wobble), but shake engine 1200-1400rpm
3. Dorman from Germany: wobbles heavily, engine is perfectly still, got knock
BTW pulley is turning perfectly still & belt glides superb on ALL three balancers!
Before we took off "new" Dorman HB, we measured a play at front face of HB bore on that Dorman HB (so flat face behind pulley which we took of):
It has 10 hundreds of mm front face play, which equals 0.0039"
Took Dorman out.
Crank snout and keyway have no visible damage or wear, would say "as new" condition.
Returned back Ford OEM HB. Knock is still there, HB is wobbling, engine shakes a bit on idle. That is why we started HB story in first place. ***But also, an occassional metallic chirping sound is back after a month, and it is clearly caused by tired Ford OEM HB*** (maybe it's important info for someone chasing chirping sound)
Where to **** does the knock come from?!?
Calmed down, cleared mind from possible crankshaft problems... deep breathe...
I fired the car and now we open our ears wide to detect knock source. Went under car, under bellhousing, took bellhous cover off... no distinctive source.
Mechanic almost on start told me "upper part of engine, passanger side". There was always a little bit of silent slight valvetrain noise on startup. Possible.
As the engine was warming, in few minutes knock volume was geting lower.
While still clear knocking, I varied RPM. Knock is clear from ~1000-~1700, after that it runs superb, no noise. Mechanic also told me "hmm, it is also oil pressure dependant".
Conclusion, he would blame hydro-lifter(s).
Possible? Car was not properly droven since this balancer "show"
Car heated up to operating temperature, works quiet as a japanese import
In process when listening to knock temperature stable in middle, oil pressure also. Both needles rock steady in dash.
Any suggestions?
I am not an expert mechanic, but I had lower intake down, teared down and cleaned by hand every single lifter. They look and resisted full of oil same to me, pushrods dirty but straight.
I done valve lash job two or three times on cold engine before closing intake, just to be fail-safe
Oil is 5W-30, filter is K&N PS3001 PRO.
I must be careful due to waiting-to-fall-apart OEM HB, but shall I take it for a proper drive to give thoose lifers some oil?
Mechanic told me to drive it, if it will behave like now - valvetrain. Apparently if it is from valvetrain and stops with warm oil, no harm should be done.
If knock would get worse, then............yall know.....
@Cheapskate207 twice for two weeks.
I don't report too much as I wait for Dayco PB1084SS.
Fear for rod knock present and season off road :-(
We returned OEM balancer, knock still present. Drove some 40 miles, cooled down still there. Poured "Liqui Moly Hydrostossel" lifters additive, no change.
Knock is present on cold start until warmup (10 minutes), then it goes away or is greatly supressed. Now I hear everything from fear.... and there may be ticking after warmup also on idle.
When testing for leaks in muffler shop it was not nice to hear engine from below... I just hope it is wobbly balancer messing crank..... :-(
I belive these are resistable engines, from wobble in HB to knock I had barely 100miles, my opinion is it should not have hurt bearings or crank...
In between I changed custom made mufflers, few led bulbs (barely lit shifter particulary)...
Mufflers should add deep tone and open up above 2000rpm, but I drive like granny due to above problem...
But I live in hope I dont have bottom end problem.... will see soon...PB1084SS arrived today.
Greetings with bitternes in mouth... Wish me luck
I don't report too much as I wait for Dayco PB1084SS.
Fear for rod knock present and season off road :-(
We returned OEM balancer, knock still present. Drove some 40 miles, cooled down still there. Poured "Liqui Moly Hydrostossel" lifters additive, no change.
Knock is present on cold start until warmup (10 minutes), then it goes away or is greatly supressed. Now I hear everything from fear.... and there may be ticking after warmup also on idle.
When testing for leaks in muffler shop it was not nice to hear engine from below... I just hope it is wobbly balancer messing crank..... :-(
I belive these are resistable engines, from wobble in HB to knock I had barely 100miles, my opinion is it should not have hurt bearings or crank...
In between I changed custom made mufflers, few led bulbs (barely lit shifter particulary)...
Mufflers should add deep tone and open up above 2000rpm, but I drive like granny due to above problem...
But I live in hope I dont have bottom end problem.... will see soon...PB1084SS arrived today.
Greetings with bitternes in mouth... Wish me luck
Howdy!
Guys, don't spare a penny on HB as I did:
Third one - Dayco PB1084SS finally went on properly, no single problem. Rock still, aesthetic shiny machining and as a bonus - laser etched timing marks. It is even "racing", meaning approved it won't fall out when rubber goes south...
In between balancers and new balancer car has got:
- new engine mounts
- new tranny mount
- new brake hoses
- brake system bleeding (Motul DOT3/4)
- Powerstop Z23 brake pads
- Cloyes C3057K timing chain set
- GMB 125-1560P water pump
- new set of Gates cooling hoses
- Gates 925-2280 fan clutch
- fresh Mobil1 5W-30 synthetic oil + K&N PS3001PRO filter
Front part of the engine should be checked as restored.
I still have "knock" on start which was with front part of engine off clearly audiable from upper part of engine. Suppose I have collapsing hidraulic lifter, pushrod or rocker arm problem. Goes away as soon as car reaches coolant operating temperature. Tick is still there, but not clearly hearable.
Oil pressure is normal. Before oil change i tried Liqui Moly valve additive - no hearable change.
Engine run's strong like it will tear that tired chassis apart.
It just has a scary tick that may be compared to rod knock until it completely warms up.
Happy easter holidays guys!
Guys, don't spare a penny on HB as I did:
Third one - Dayco PB1084SS finally went on properly, no single problem. Rock still, aesthetic shiny machining and as a bonus - laser etched timing marks. It is even "racing", meaning approved it won't fall out when rubber goes south...
In between balancers and new balancer car has got:
- new engine mounts
- new tranny mount
- new brake hoses
- brake system bleeding (Motul DOT3/4)
- Powerstop Z23 brake pads
- Cloyes C3057K timing chain set
- GMB 125-1560P water pump
- new set of Gates cooling hoses
- Gates 925-2280 fan clutch
- fresh Mobil1 5W-30 synthetic oil + K&N PS3001PRO filter
Front part of the engine should be checked as restored.
I still have "knock" on start which was with front part of engine off clearly audiable from upper part of engine. Suppose I have collapsing hidraulic lifter, pushrod or rocker arm problem. Goes away as soon as car reaches coolant operating temperature. Tick is still there, but not clearly hearable.
Oil pressure is normal. Before oil change i tried Liqui Moly valve additive - no hearable change.
Engine run's strong like it will tear that tired chassis apart.
It just has a scary tick that may be compared to rod knock until it completely warms up.
Happy easter holidays guys!
If it's a lifter it isn't too hard to fix. The noise will travel down the valve. If you take a mechanics stethoscope to the exhaust manifold tubes you'll hear which cylinder has the bad lifter. It will be audibly louder.
I had tack once and thought it was just a lifter. Turned out that a lifter had jumped out of the bore and broke the " dog bone " keeper. The lifter was turned and riding the camshaft sideways instead of rolling with it.
Don't want to scare you but it needs to be looked in to. I'm sure you'll get to it. You've done some great work on this car. I enjoy following along as you overcome these problems.
I had tack once and thought it was just a lifter. Turned out that a lifter had jumped out of the bore and broke the " dog bone " keeper. The lifter was turned and riding the camshaft sideways instead of rolling with it.
Don't want to scare you but it needs to be looked in to. I'm sure you'll get to it. You've done some great work on this car. I enjoy following along as you overcome these problems.
Thank You!
Tried the trick with broomstick, couldn't source tack. I will try stethoscope on next cold start.
Lifter out of the bore in my opinion would not go quiet on warmup, would it?
I had all that off and cleaned in petrol. Parts were clean as brand new ones.
Collapsed or bleeding lifter makes sense to me. It was probbably worn out before, and I cleaned out junk that kept him runnin'. This is my opinion. I should have just change them when I had lower intake off.
First step would be removing upper intake and valve covers on rainy weekend to check all rocker arms and pushrods for possible play. From there I could also peek into lifter galley with a boroscope.
No mechanical update, there was no time.
I was travelling round Europe due to business.
BTW I saw charger R/T '68 in Switzerland, but garage was closed :-(. I believe that one is nowadays rare in US also...
Fox is running like raped ape. However it knocks for some 5 minutes until coolant warms up, after that works and runs like a new car. I would say lifter(s) totally bleeding out. When they pump up they quite down. I am just careful to warm it up for good 10 minutes before any takeoff. Season just started so I plan to drive like this until next teardown in winter.
I also got some occassional ringing around 1000rpm after few hard accelerations, sounding like cat shield or sheet metal hitting something. IMHO sources under car and it should be exhaust related.
I will check exhaust bolts, thermactor tube bolts and O2 sensors for possible knock source, and try to chase ringing source around exhaust pipes.
Attached picture is me and Fox. Dressed for a weekend ride
I was travelling round Europe due to business.
BTW I saw charger R/T '68 in Switzerland, but garage was closed :-(. I believe that one is nowadays rare in US also...
Fox is running like raped ape. However it knocks for some 5 minutes until coolant warms up, after that works and runs like a new car. I would say lifter(s) totally bleeding out. When they pump up they quite down. I am just careful to warm it up for good 10 minutes before any takeoff. Season just started so I plan to drive like this until next teardown in winter.
I also got some occassional ringing around 1000rpm after few hard accelerations, sounding like cat shield or sheet metal hitting something. IMHO sources under car and it should be exhaust related.
I will check exhaust bolts, thermactor tube bolts and O2 sensors for possible knock source, and try to chase ringing source around exhaust pipes.
Attached picture is me and Fox. Dressed for a weekend ride
Ohh, forgot:
I tested oil pump with EFI trick - pedal to the metal and crank while engine won't start. After dozen of cranks oil pressure from stock gauge slowly climbed to normal.
Okay, I should stick mechanical gauge to be 100% sure, but I trust Ford gauge as precaution test. Besides I have brand new oil pump in garage with pickup, waiting next winter...
Second part is that if I warmup engine till knock fades away, kill it and start after few minutes there is no knock. Only if it cools down a bit, it will start to knock. That part makes me believe or almost sure it is(are) just lifter(s) bleeding. This should not cause problems apparently...
What I have in mind to order are M-6500-R302H from Ford racing, correct?
Have a nice sunday guys, it is raining here :-(
I tested oil pump with EFI trick - pedal to the metal and crank while engine won't start. After dozen of cranks oil pressure from stock gauge slowly climbed to normal.
Okay, I should stick mechanical gauge to be 100% sure, but I trust Ford gauge as precaution test. Besides I have brand new oil pump in garage with pickup, waiting next winter...
Second part is that if I warmup engine till knock fades away, kill it and start after few minutes there is no knock. Only if it cools down a bit, it will start to knock. That part makes me believe or almost sure it is(are) just lifter(s) bleeding. This should not cause problems apparently...
What I have in mind to order are M-6500-R302H from Ford racing, correct?
Have a nice sunday guys, it is raining here :-(
Haha, I went for a redneck look, but it went a bit south ;-)
Foxbody is a weird car up here (people expect latest Mustang when they hear roooar) as so giving a lots of head turns with question marks, so I gave them a full package with even more weird driver ;-)
Let me help you out with the entire theme you got going on there with some traveling music for when you got the top down:
You're going to need an amp and some speakers.
Better add this to the collection:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mynzbmrtp9I&ab_channel=CelebPortal
You shouldn't have posted that image. LoL
I got a million of 'em!
This was filmed not too far from your neck of the woods. One of the best Western movies ever made.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOFyRCMlXIo&ab_channel=CinemaHotelStudios
Footnote: The horn player in this piece is a God.
I got a million of 'em!
This was filmed not too far from your neck of the woods. One of the best Western movies ever made.
Footnote: The horn player in this piece is a God.
Haha, I knew it from first reply ;-)
Is this a dare?
You are really pushing me to drive stang to proper scenery:
https://theredphoneboxtravels.com/2020/08/03/family-day-out-cowboy-village-roswell-in-croatia/
Not a lot of people know that German western Winnetou was filmed mostly in Croatia due to scenery visually closest to Apache homeland. There is a leftover village...
BTW I always felt unconditional love for muscle cars, 60's/70's r'n'r, motorbikes... kind'a before I was born stuff... sometimes so spooky it makes me wonder about that 'previous life' voodoo stuff ;-)
Working some stuff on stang for example in late night, as I already did it before... (Wasn't reading here hahaha)
Back to stang... Apart from bleeding lifers(s) I made cruising easier in 2021.:
3d printed panel, 2 usb chargers (one with voltage indicator, other double QC 3.0), switch and cigarete lighter plug and I assembled this prototype. Switch is there only to turn off both chargers to avoid battery drain.
Ashtray and stock lighter out, panel plugs in and click into place. 30 sec install/remove time. No drilling or modifications to OEM parts, simple and quickly reversible to stock ashtray.
Color tone was fail and finish is not exactly piano look, but hey this is a prototype
BTW My ashtray lid is metal, but I see other ones as plastic. Was this some PO project or were there metal lids also in '88?
Either way mine looks pretty bad and worn out (as you can see on pictures) plus it is broken and I am waiting for larger order to squeeze new one in...
Question - nobody gave me a indirect clue or opinion:
Driving our 302 with bleeding lifter(s) should be 'fine' (or harmless if you like) till wintertime? I am religiously:
a) waiting 5-10 minutes in idle to pump up lifter and noise to disappear before I touch accelerator or drive...
b) take care if cold start knock will change or extend duration (currently till coolant warmup)
c) tracking warm engine valvetrain noise (at the moment normal)
Thnx!
3d printed panel, 2 usb chargers (one with voltage indicator, other double QC 3.0), switch and cigarete lighter plug and I assembled this prototype. Switch is there only to turn off both chargers to avoid battery drain.
Ashtray and stock lighter out, panel plugs in and click into place. 30 sec install/remove time. No drilling or modifications to OEM parts, simple and quickly reversible to stock ashtray.
Color tone was fail and finish is not exactly piano look, but hey this is a prototype
BTW My ashtray lid is metal, but I see other ones as plastic. Was this some PO project or were there metal lids also in '88?
Either way mine looks pretty bad and worn out (as you can see on pictures) plus it is broken and I am waiting for larger order to squeeze new one in...
Question - nobody gave me a indirect clue or opinion:
Driving our 302 with bleeding lifter(s) should be 'fine' (or harmless if you like) till wintertime? I am religiously:
a) waiting 5-10 minutes in idle to pump up lifter and noise to disappear before I touch accelerator or drive...
b) take care if cold start knock will change or extend duration (currently till coolant warmup)
c) tracking warm engine valvetrain noise (at the moment normal)
Thnx!