Electrical Alternator (91 Mustang GT & 89 Lincoln Mark VII)

Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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Drove out to a muffler shop to a price quote for catalytic converters near the transmission coverplate. Told we needed for cats for the car to be smog/street legal in California. A bit surprised because we see where two are missing (straightpipe connects/joins the exhaust pipes). We don't see anywhere else that is cut/replaced. We do see a Flowmaster exhaust, which my son says is not original.

Online, the cats we have seen say they are not legal in California. Don't recall seeing cats at the junkyard. Do we have to buy whole new exhaust system? Other options?

Thx, Jhp and son
 

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Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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california
2 cats & 2 mufflers.
Cats are in front of the mufflers.
Think we see it now. Looks like what we thought was a connector pipe is the original. Is this where the cats were deleted? And, is the connection between the two pipes correct? We see the O2 sensor up on top. Is there supposed to be one after the cats?

Might be a bit pricey right now to get them but doubt we can get pass smog without them. If not Mustangs, any other car we can cannibalize for the cats?
 

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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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There are 4 cats stock. Don't know about California and what is/is not legal as far as the number of cats required for smog inspections.
i have a stock catted h pipe, if you need a stock one pm me, I would call an inspection station and talk to a referee and also call a manufacturer like dynomax or flow master, maybe summit, I am pretty sure you can run what ever you like after the cats.
 

Mustang5L5

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That's not a stock mid-pipe. It's been changed. It's possible it was an aftermarket 2-cat pipe, and then the cats were removed.

This is what the stock mid-pipe will look like. You also want to verify your air pump setup is present and hooked up. I see parts of it on the pic that look like they are present.

img_20160603_090346405_zpsdvugncqe-jpg.jpg
 

Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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california
That's not a stock mid-pipe. It's been changed. It's possible it was an aftermarket 2-cat pipe, and then the cats were removed.

This is what the stock mid-pipe will look like. You also want to verify your air pump setup is present and hooked up. I see parts of it on the pic that look like they are present.

img_20160603_090346405_zpsdvugncqe-jpg.jpg
Interesting. Quick question: what is the small tube setup to the left of the cats on the right side of the picture? What does it serve to measure?
 

Mustang5L5

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That tube runs up front to the pass side of the engine to a small series of rubber hoses and the air pump. During warmpup, the air pump sends air to the heads. When the engine is fully warmed up, the air is diverted down the metal tube to the 2nd pair of cats. The o2 in the air helps the converter do it's job as older cats, combined with these older, inefficient engines, need all the help they can get.
 

Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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california
That tube runs up front to the pass side of the engine to a small series of rubber hoses and the air pump. During warmpup, the air pump sends air to the heads. When the engine is fully warmed up, the air is diverted down the metal tube to the 2nd pair of cats. The o2 in the air helps the converter do it's job as older cats, combined with these older, inefficient engines, need all the help they can get.
I see. As far as I can tell, the air pump is hooked up correctly. Won't know that it is working properly until we get the cat/exhaust pipes set in place and have the smog test done. Of course, if we end up getting a used cat/exhaust setup locally, we probably won't know if it's because the cats or the air pump (or both) aren't working properly. How can we tell if the cats are working before we purchase or secure one from "an alternative parts yard?" Or is it just a gamble?

Jhp & son
 

Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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california
Just finished reading a thread about an eulogy for a father. Darn near cried, but for a different reason. You see, both my boys have serious health issues. Nearly lost my oldest several times. The first time was when he was two years old, on memorial day weekend. My wife, my oldest, and my youngest (six weeks old at the time) were driving on the freeway when we noticed the two year had stopped breathing and was turning blue in his car seat. Pulled off to the side and rushed him to the back of the Safari van (sorry, typical new parents' car). Started CPR, while my wife called 911. Seemed like forever, but got him breathing before the highway patrol and fire department arrived and took over. They got him to the hospital in time. That was the first time. Over the course of the sixteen years, we have had transported by ambulance five times to the ER and have driven him ourselves to the ER, each time calling ahead to have a team of specialist on hand (doesn't matter which ER is nearest, we always call on the way and ask to have a team ready for him). Been blessed that he's pulled through each time so far, though a few times we were told they could nothing more, that we should pray.

This is why I have made it a point to spend time with him "working" on his car. My dad made us work on the family cars because we couldn't afford a mechanic, and many times we couldn't even afford a replacement part. Had to rebuild everything at home in the garage.

My son's a "musician" and "an artist," his words. I don't get it, but I support him in his interest (double bass, electric bass, guitar, ukulele, tenor sax, baritone sax, sousaphone, tuba, and piano [even tried drums]).

So, when he said he wanted to do a project car, I wasn't sure we could make it happen. But, it's been great, because he has learned so much on his own and we are learning together to work alongside one another without fighting (some disagreements, but always minor disputes about how to fix his car).

The car is a project, but we are making progress together. Yep, I have to listen to his music at times. But, he enjoys mine as well. Every night I go to bed grateful for another day with him, not always grateful for the foolish debates he starts, but I keep reminding myself that he is a teenager with a difficult, older dad (his peers have fathers 15 to 20 years younger).

I'm especially thankful that this forum exists and that you good folks provide sound advice and great insight. It's a journey no doubt, but thankfully he can "see" what the car can be. He says his friends don't have the "vision" he does because they just want new cars and aren't able to imagine the car later in time.

Again apologies for the personal stuff, but the father/son thread brought this out. Besides, memorial day is just around the corner. And, we go to church together on "that" first day we almost lost him.

My younger son is the athlete, with his own medical issues. He has his eye on a 66 Mustang Coupe. (Told him the 2000 Monte Carlo in the driveway will be his).

Hope to get out to Chicago to pray at the St. Jude National Shrine at the end of May or beginning of June. We plan on driving, depending on the weather patterns, but not the Mustang. That's for when we get it street legal and smog legal.

Jhp & sons
 

Rdub6

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Enjoy this time man. I was the teen back in the day with the “older” dad, but I learned a hell of a lot. (We used to wrench on first gen mustangs together)
Your son will soon realize he has the “wiser” and “more experienced” dad! (and we weren’t too crazy about each other’s music either..lol). Thanks for sparking some memories with your post! Good luck on your build!!
 

Mustang5L5

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Feb 18, 2001
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. How can we tell if the cats are working before we purchase or secure one from "an alternative parts yard?" Or is it just a gamble?

Jhp & son
Unfortunately it's a crap shoot. Just shake the pipe and make sure nothing is loose as the cats usually crumble apart when they are bad. If they are solid, and don't appear clogged, you are likely ok.
 

Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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california
Put off the trip to St Jude for later in the summer. Son graduated high school last week. Played the double bass with his school orchestra at the graduation. He wants to drive the mustang to st jude together later this summer. So we continue with the project.

Picked up an h-pipe with the four cats for $300 locally (about fifty miles out) and put it in last weekend. Also picked up a stock air box and intake tube to replace the "cold air intake" that came with the car. Told it wouldn't pass the visual on the smog test because it wasn't C. A.R.B. certified for California. Besides it was installed right inside the engine bay so not sure how it was supposed to bring in cold air.

Anyway, when we pulled off the throttle body we noticed the egr spacer was pretty bunked up. We have a replacement one ready to put in because one nipple was rusted and rotted out (have been using a tube bypass as suggested previously). Still struggling to get it out though. Have been spraying penetrating fluid on the four bolts. Thought of using two nuts together and trying to remove the bolts instead.

While we were doing this, we noticed huge carbon deposits at the EGR connection and inside the upper intake manifold. Why would this occur? Doesn't the combustion take place in the cylinder? Does this mean that the car is running to rich and that the exhaust gas coming back in through the EGR has a lot of unburnt fuel in it? We don't see any smoke out the back of the exhaust pipes.

Thanks, jhp & son
 

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Mustang5L5

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May have to pull the upper manifold off and clean all that carbon out. Not unheard of for it to all gunk up, especially if that intakes never been off.
 

Jhp84

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Mar 2, 2019
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california
Yes, but having difficulty removing the plate. Two of the torx bolts are frozen. We broken (twisted) three torx screwdrivers and bits trying to remove them. Thought about heating them and about cutting straight lines in them to see it makes it easier to remove them.

Btw, one it comes off, do we use brake cleaner or carburetor cleaner to remove the build up? Or something else?

Thx, jhp & son
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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You talking about the 4 studs holding the tb on? That spacer can be a pain, spray it down at the gasket with pb blaster, the tap it with a hammer, a small screw driver between the spacer and the intake opening will help, work the three sides you can get at, tap, tap ,tap, gently tap the flat blade screw driver between them then tap on the spacer, change positions of the screw driver and tap the spacer some more. Slow process, you don't want to damage the intake opening, all this is caused by electrolysis, iron, aluminum and water flowing, same thing happens with the timing cover.
you get that spacer off those studs should come out easier
 

Jhp84

Member
Mar 2, 2019
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california
Thanks. My son said to use a small metal scraper at the joint.

I told him, "No! We never want to scratch the gaps."

Looks like I'm going to have to apologize to him for the brusque retort. Then, we will give it a try.

By the way, we took it for a spin after we got the cats in and videotaped it. Is it ok to put a link to share it on this thread? Or not something allowed?