H/C/I Help

[urban96]

Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator

 

[AznStanger3v]

You really won't need a tune. My mods are in sig, and i haven't done anything for tuning yet and I am running high 13's. That is just with the mods in my sig. No gears. no afpr. no dr. nothing. just trickflows kit.

no offense, but thats actually horrible to run high 13s with an HCI. maybe you should tune it......

 

[mo_dingo]

no offense, but thats actually horrible to run high 13s with an HCI. maybe you should tune it......

Here comes the

So you think he doesn't have traction issues? He is probably running 8" street tires with stock suspension. I bet the best 60' time he can cut is a 2.2 or a 2.3.

I woud also wager that when he shifts into 2nd gear, and punches it, the car goes sideways unless he lets off.

Just h/c/i with NO OTHER MODS & running high 13's is very understandable & logical. Add some suspension & DR's and he will see low 13's IMO.
Scott

 

[MattZ281LE]

This was my basic list when installing my H/C/I. Last fall I did a long write up step by step with pictures. In my opinion this is the minimum list of stuff you need. Your choince on brands and components. But make sure everything is matched or you will be unhappy.

Heads AFR 165
ARP Bolts or Studs
Roller Rockers 1.7
Cam Crower 15511
Ported Cobra Intake
Header Gaskets
Headers.
Plugs
Wires
Cap/Rotor
Timing Set
New Lifters
Pro-M77 MAF
65mm TB
Water Pump
Thermostat
Intake/Valvecover/Timing Cover gaskets
24# Injectors
255lph pump (already installed)
Fulle exhaust (already installed O/R H and catback)
Fuel Filter
AFPR
3.73 Gears (already installed)
Install sender for aftermarket oil pressure guage

Special tools:

Balancer Puller
Torque Wrench
Air Tools if possible
Degreaser
Spring lock uncouplers fro the fuel lines
Degree Wheel if possible
Old wrences to grind and thin and shape makes the job easier
Good lighting
clean work area
Take pictures for later reference.
TAKE YOUR TIME

 

[mackey]

Here comes the

So you think he doesn't have traction issues? He is probably running 8" street tires with stock suspension. I bet the best 60' time he can cut is a 2.2 or a 2.3.

I woud also wager that when he shifts into 2nd gear, and punches it, the car goes sideways unless he lets off.

Just h/c/i with NO OTHER MODS & running high 13's is very understandable & logical. Add some suspension & DR's and he will see low 13's IMO.
Scott

Yup. Stock Tires. Actually worse than stock. Prodigy 245s all the way around on the heavy 8 inch wheel. 2.39 60 actually. Stock suspension, not even gears. I cannot get any traction at all throughout first gear till the end when it finally hooks and pulls very hard. I also have to let off the gas when i hit 2nd or else I do not hook. This is all with stock gears. I do not even have Underdrive pulleys. I have 24lb injectors also but I need to find a MAF so that I can put them on the car. All this on a college budget

 

[final5-0]

Well, I have decided to go with heads, cam and intake over the winter. I want the Edelbrock Performer Heads( http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=EDL-60329), and the Edelbrock Performer RPM II Intake. What cam should I go with, what other parts will I need. Im am new to all of this. Do i need new rockers, I know I want to go to #24 Injectors. Someone who has done this please list everything I will need to buy to complete a H/C/I swap. Thanks

Jason

You say you are new to all of this.

No disrespect to anyone on this forum but we don't all have the same idea of what a successful combo is. Most of us would agree and say we have a street/ strip car but the focus of some is on the street and for others it is on the strip.

If you go for a custom cam, you get the advantage of being able to tell your guy exactly what your expectations are for your car and he will tell you what supporting parts to use with the cam.

I got everything I expected from my combo and then some. IMHO, my custom cam and the knowledge from my guy (Ed C.) was worth every penny I spent.

Later
Grady

 

[5spd GT]

165cc AFR Cylinder Heads: $1325
Valve Spring Upgrade: $160 (matched to cam)
Viton Seal Upgrade: $32
ARP 7/16 Rocker Studs: $25 (instead of the standard 3/8's)

Custom HR Camshaft: $325 (FTI)
Rollmaster Billet Roller Timing Set: $90 (FTI)
Scorpion 1.6 Roller Rockers: $200 (FTI)
Performer Intake: $495 (Summit Racing)

Eaton HR Lifters: $125 (FTI)
6.250 Hardened Push Rods: $120 (FTI)
75mm Chrome Pro-M (for 30lb injectors, N/A): $200 (jdsperformance)
65mm FRPP TB (previous owner installed it on car)

ROL Head Gaskets: $50 pair (FTI)
FEL-1250 Intake Gasket $20 (Summit Racing)
Valve Cover Gaskets: $18 - (FTI)
Timing Set Gaskets and water pump gaskets: $15 (FTI)
FEL-1415 Header gaskets: $20 (Summit Racing)
ARP Head Bolts: $40 (Summit Racing)
Griffin Radiator: $190 (Summit Racing) w/ cap ($10)
Kirban AFPR: $70 (jdsperformance.com) w/ FP guage ($40)from 50resto.com
FRPP 30lb injectors: $220 (Summit Racing)
Cam Degreeing Kit: $85 (Summit Racing)
Stage 8 Locking Header Bolts: $40 (Summit Racing)
A nice flowing exhaust system would be nice to like shorties or longtubes, offroad pipe, and aftermarket mufflers (catback)...$400-1000?
Assembly lube, antiseize, loc-tite, thread sealer, gasket sealer: $20 from local car parts store (Autozone, Napa, etc)...

The RPM II is to big for the 302 for daily driver and have the nice "fun" low rpm torque for around town driving...if you think you can make a custom cam to make up for that high flow of intake and keep it at a nice flat torque curve across the board...there is a little bit more to it than that...For example: You could lose some mid-range or high range by grinding the cam for some torque "gain" to compensate...

And oh yeah...have LOTS of patience...when attempting the swap...

Good Luck

 

[nmcgrawj]

The RPM II is to big for the 302 for daily driver and have the nice "fun" low rpm torque for around town driving...if you think you can make a custom cam to make up for that high flow of intake and keep it at a nice flat torque curve across the board...there is a little bit more to it than that...For example: You could lose some mid-range or high range by grinding the cam for some torque "gain" to compensate...
Good Luck

Does anyone actually have real proof of this statement? I see and hear a lot of guys saying it....but does anyone actually have real life proof? Sure you think what you think on paper but it doesn't matter if its not ran on the car to back it up. Just a little tired of guys saying this without any proof. And dont say custom cam designers say it....cause different cam designers have different beliefs and strategies.

BTW, what starts the intake charge into the cylinder?

 

[Grn92LX]

No, most of them dont have real proof. Its ALL in the combination. Some goals dont require an intake of that caliber though. A dude on corral swapped to that intake from a TFS track heat and some other changes and is running 11.60's on a stock short. He should put a cobra intake on to "gain velocity" His mph is 113.xx and he hasnt even dyno'd the new changes yet. Very impressive. Stock short, trickflow TW heads, FTI cam, rpm 2, 75mm tb, 30's, pro m 80, longtubes, 410's and a C4. Theres more in it after he dyno's it. I gotta PM him and see when he's gonna do that.

nmcgrawj, I so bad wanna do a holley intake and a Jay allen custom grind. I just spent a lot of money though recently on a tremec TKO, clutch, driveshaft, scattershield, new pro m 80mm maf for 30's and an accufab 75mm TB. Once I sell my other 24lb pro m 80mm maf and accufab 65mm tb I may go for it. I'm also owed money from a side job I did with my buddy from work. It never ends

 

[final5-0]

Does anyone actually have real proof of this statement? I see and hear a lot of guys saying it....but does anyone actually have real life proof? Sure you think what you think on paper but it doesn't matter if its not ran on the car to back it up. Just a little tired of guys saying this without any proof. And dont say custom cam designers say it....cause different cam designers have different beliefs and strategies.

BTW, what starts the intake charge into the cylinder?

I would just compare the dyno results from some milder combos which most seem to think will have good low end and midrange power to a few more radical combos which most seem to think will make more high end power but will be somewhat softer in the lower rpm range.

Let us know what you find out

Later
Grady

 

[nmcgrawj]

nmcgrawj, I so bad wanna do a holley intake and a Jay allen custom grind. I just spent a lot of money though recently on a tremec TKO, clutch, driveshaft, scattershield, new pro m 80mm maf for 30's and an accufab 75mm TB. Once I sell my other 24lb pro m 80mm maf and accufab 65mm tb I may go for it. I'm also owed money from a side job I did with my buddy from work. It never ends

How much you want for your 80 mm? Is it for a fox body or 94-95? Does that even matter? Anyway, i will be running 24lb injectors so i need a 80mm Pro-m.

Email me to set something up.

[email protected]

I would just compare the dyno results from some milder combos which most seem to think will have good low end and midrange power to a few more radical combos which most seem to think will make more high end power but will be somewhat softer in the lower rpm range.

I will surely post my results. I think its just gonna turn out good like Grn92lx was getting at...and thats the combo being designed for what it has. All of the smaller and medium sized intakes will work...you just have to have it dialed in. I agree...the HUGE intakes victors and such are too big for h/c/i 302's.

Is the RPM II actually "bigger" than the first RPM?

 

[Grn92LX]

You have mail and yes the new rpm 2 is higher flowing than the regular rpm.

 

[5spd GT]

He should put a cobra intake on to "gain velocity"

That would be stupid...you actually know someone on here that would suggest that?

nmcgrawj - Ask Ed if that RPM II is to big...see what he says...I wouldn't want it on my car even with a "custom cam"...I know a guy that had a Systemax intake on his car and I know what it can and can't do...let's just say you had to build it on up...

 

[Grn92LX]

5spdGT, he's going with a Jay Allen cam, not an ed cam and thats the intake that Jay suggested.

 

[nmcgrawj]

That would be stupid...you actually know someone on here that would suggest that?

nmcgrawj - Ask Ed if that RPM II is to big...see what he says...I wouldn't want it on my car even with a "custom cam"...I know a guy that had a Systemax intake on his car and I know what it can and can't do...let's just say you had to build it on up...

I didn't realize the difference in size with the RPM II and RPM. In tests that it is involved with, the Systemax intake blows everything away in n/a and forced induction.

Im not sure what you mean by "build it on up" but intake velocity due to the intake is bs if you ask me when comparing intakes with runner sizes that are fairly close. The intake charge is actually started or initiated by the exhaust down in the collector of the header....not by the piston going in down the cylinder or something else that i thought at first. The cam controls the speed of the exhaust...how fast it leaves thus how fast the intake comes in. The drop in pressure the exhaust leaving causes the intake to be pulled in. Anyway, Jay Allen explained this to me on the phone which makes me believe that the cam does make intakes that differ in size...by nothing huge though....be able to perform the same if not better.

Anyway, we will see next spring. We could be wrong though but i dont think the Holley intake is THAT much bigger than say a performer or something.

 

[5spd GT]

I didn't realize the difference in size with the RPM II and RPM. In tests that it is involved with, the Systemax intake blows everything away in n/a and forced induction.

Im not sure what you mean by "build it on up" but intake velocity due to the intake is bs if you ask me when comparing intakes with runner sizes that are fairly close. The intake charge is actually started or initiated by the exhaust down in the collector of the header....not by the piston going in down the cylinder or something else that i thought at first. The cam controls the speed of the exhaust...how fast it leaves thus how fast the intake comes in. The drop in pressure the exhaust leaving causes the intake to be pulled in. Anyway, Jay Allen explained this to me on the phone which makes me believe that the cam does make intakes that differ in size...by nothing huge though....be able to perform the same if not better.

Anyway, we will see next spring. We could be wrong though but i dont think the Holley intake is THAT much bigger than say a performer or something.

I would like to see your dyno sheet when it is all said and done...(spring)...

I meant by "building it on up"...is that it really only pulled at just before 5k...

 

[nmcgrawj]

I would like to see your dyno sheet when it is all said and done...(spring)...

I meant by "building it on up"...is that it really only pulled at just before 5k...

Something had to not match. 5,000rpm? So where would a victor jr. start to pull at? 6,000? Come on man, you cant seriously think that he put that combo together right with good heads and the CAM that handled everything correctly.

The rpm band for that intake is 2200 - 6500 (or 6,000) so what happened to that other 2800 rpms? Like i said, something was wrong. I think the cam is at fault. But without knowing any more about the combo, theres really nothing to say.

Ya know....there is a such thing as a cam being too big also.....

 

[nmcgrawj]

That would be stupid...you actually know someone on here that would suggest that?

Yea actually everyone or the majority does. Not with a Cobra though but with the Performer. They say the performer gives you velocity cause thats what custom cam designers say. Im not saying it doesn't but a correct cam can give you velocity since it is started from the interactions between exhaust gases, the cam and the intake charge.

He was saying that the Performer is good....but these "huge" intakes are not that huge on a 302 when you design them right. Now Victor's or TFS-R intakes are big.