How do I improve torque?
- Thread starter Jeff Goos
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The only thing you will have to worry about is a very minimal hit on your gas mileage. You won't be anywhere near redline at 100 with 4.10's.Jeff Goos said:Thanks for all the replies. I guess I should have defined my goals a bit more.
I'm wanting more low end torque, but don't want to give up my high speed highway efficiency. I make almost monthly runs to Las Vegas from San Diego and love cruising at over 100 MPH. A 4.10 rear end would take my RPMs from the current 3000 to possibly near red line. Not desirable.
Stangnut
Member
I am by no means an expert, (I'm barely even a novice) but it sounds like you're wanting the same thing I did I bought my '03 GT, which is my first 4.6L.
Going from a 5.0 to a 4.6 was a big dissapointment at first. The 5.0's are all about low end torque and the 4.6 has no idea what that is.
The long tubes will help a little and 3.73's won't really hurt your mpg, but in the end what you really need is more cubic inches. Face it, the 281 is a relatively small motor.
On the up side, if you're like me and you're used to the low end torque of a 5.0, you should also be used to the lack of EVERYTHING in the high end.
With the 4.6, the torque is there, it's just not where we're used to it being.
Anyone who's mostly driven V6's or 4's are accustom to being above 3K rpm.
It took a while, but I'm now used to the torque curve and just make the best of it. In fact it's kinda cool feeling the power building up as the rpm's go up.
The one thing I've wondered about though is wether or not the computer can be reprogrammed for more low end torque for us guys who prefer it down there even at the expense of the top end.
Any ideas?
Jason
Going from a 5.0 to a 4.6 was a big dissapointment at first. The 5.0's are all about low end torque and the 4.6 has no idea what that is.
The long tubes will help a little and 3.73's won't really hurt your mpg, but in the end what you really need is more cubic inches. Face it, the 281 is a relatively small motor.
On the up side, if you're like me and you're used to the low end torque of a 5.0, you should also be used to the lack of EVERYTHING in the high end.
With the 4.6, the torque is there, it's just not where we're used to it being.
Anyone who's mostly driven V6's or 4's are accustom to being above 3K rpm.
It took a while, but I'm now used to the torque curve and just make the best of it. In fact it's kinda cool feeling the power building up as the rpm's go up.
The one thing I've wondered about though is wether or not the computer can be reprogrammed for more low end torque for us guys who prefer it down there even at the expense of the top end.
Any ideas?
Jason
you could prolly play with the spark curve and get a few lb-ft on the low-end. don't take my word fo it, though, i've scarcely driven and never modded a computerized car. i agree the 4.6 has no balls off-idle, relatively speaking, so part of it is adjusting your driving to hit the torque
If you're driving 100 or near there for any period of time I wouldn't get 4:10's, I'd go with 3:73's max. A couple of mods that will gain you a few foot-pounds are K&N air filter, and a larger throttle body, I believe a '99 issue of 5.0 K&N and throttle body together added about 7 foot-pounds. Are long tubes legal with Cal's emmissions provided cats are in place? Problem is that its a very time consuming or costly install. I actually like the torque that the 4.6 2V's make. I had a 97 cobra (stock) that I sold partially because I had to be turning 4500 before I felt anything. Supercharger is expensive but it'll do the trick.
Steedaq said:
i'm not sure that an air filter and TB would get low-end...wouldn't the gains show up on the top end?
the long tubes should be legal, just make sure it has a CARB number to keep the smog nazis here happy.
and you're right, the 4.6 2v makes better low-end than a cobra, and better than most cars these days, but compared to the 5.0 even my older 302/5.0 they are a bit lacking...it's a matter of where you're coming from, i suppose
forpit2000gt
Founding Member
You originally said you primarily wanted more low end for the street.Jeff Goos said:Thanks for all the replies. I guess I should have defined my goals a bit more.
I'm wanting more low end torque, but don't want to give up my high speed highway efficiency. I make almost monthly runs to Las Vegas from San Diego and love cruising at over 100 MPH
The long tube headers sound interesting. More details please.
What's the "spray" thing??
What about the intake system? Anything I can do there? I heard something about increasing the speed of the flow???
The big engine mods are probably out of consideration, just not undoable at sale time.
1: gears will give you this feel 3.73 at least , I really love my 4.10s ( about $500 unless you install)
2: spray, (or nitrous) will give you a lot but at 300 rpm and up and only in short bursts ( until you need to refill the bottle)
3: LTs give about 20 rwtq and about the same hp ( $500-1000 ) unless you install
4: TB, MAF and or Plenum will give you more up top
5: The KB setup will give it to you when you want it ( $ 5000 )
6: TA will give you 15-20 rwtq ( Under $ 200 and you can install)
The cheapest and easiest street mods for what you want are gears and TA.
With 4.10s and a 5 speed you will redline in 4th at 112 mph, still have 5th to go and it will not stop you from what you car can do on top. You are drag limited .
Once you start modding you will want more and more. try to lay out what your goals are so you can benefit from previous mods with the future mods.
krly79
Member
coramprat said:
I get a little over 250 miles per tank with 4.10's. Probably about 280 to 300, I'd probably run out around 300 or so. I filled up about 30 to 50 miles over the red line. and.... At 100 MPH in 5th gear, your motor is turning at 3,327.2 RPM. H3!l, my camaro turns 3k @ 60 mph, well...before the tranny burned up...totally had nothing to do with it though. See, I left my car at home when I joined the navy and my dad was suppose to be driving it so my gaskets and everything stayed good. Instead he pulled it up next to the house and let it sit for a couple of years. 
Starting it occasionally kept the motor nice and wet, but he never drove it so my tranny got all dried out. Needless to say, I took it for a spin when I came home on leave once, not knowing that it hadn't been kept up, and it went a little something like this......... Stoped and pulled it down into 1st and mashed it. spinning hard, going sideways, hit 2nd @ 7k, kicked back the otherway, climbed up to 3k and Oh $h!t I said.........just let go. RPM's shot up to about 6k or so by the time I let off. Realising I had no gear at all, I coasted home (just down the street). No more tranny.
time for a stage 3 700R4 
2000GTnoExtras
Founding Member
jcp123 said:
There is no such thing as Long tubes with a CARB number.
At least not on a 4.6L. Shoot, the FRPP shorties aren't even CARB approved.
krly79
Member
jcp123 said:
Not at all. It does come quite abit quicker, but It still has a purpose. As long as you learn to manipulate the clutch and gas, you won't have any traction issues, with the stock tires and suspension, either. IMO 4.10's actually make it a little easier to drive, not speaking of a little more shifts that is. When I down shift now, I dont' have to go down 2 gears. Now it's just one and I'm in my powerband, it's really nice.
jadesville said:agreed, you'll have some good gains
another vote for long tubes , my friend that help me put them on told me i was full of crap when i told him that it had to give the car atleast 25 more FT lbs of torque and even though he helped me put them on , he didnt believe me till i showed him Cottonburners Dyno numbers on here , you can definitely spank the machs with this kind of torque , If you can hook it , my Kuhmos are having trouble keeping up now since i put the Longtubes on
forpit2000gt
Founding Member
another , NOOOOOOO. people make to big of a deal about 4.10s and 1st gear. with 4.30s it is not to much NA.jcp123 said:
The long tubes sound like a potential option. What is their down side, if any? Is it true there arn't any with CARB approval? If I take a chance and install them myself will it cause me to fail smog testing or will the inspection guy with the mirrors be able to visually see they are not approved parts? I'm guessing they look non-stock. Can anyone recommend a few brand names?
Stupid question: what's a TA?
What about the intake manifold or other intake mods? I've heard longer runners help low end torque.
Stupid question: what's a TA?
What about the intake manifold or other intake mods? I've heard longer runners help low end torque.
2000GTnoExtras
Founding Member
Jeff Goos said:
The down side is PITA install, lowers your clearance and yes, I am very positive NO LTs carry a CARB number. Do you live in California? If yes, you better know someone before trying to smog your LTs, plus, even if you smog, if you get pulled over, you can get royally screwed.
TA=Timing Adjuster.
Dan_Soprano
Mod Dude
03trubluGT
New Member
I like the torque my 4.6 is putting out.
With LTs and full exhaust I have dynod at 311 STD RWTQ, that equates to (adding 15% drivetrain loss) 365 lb/ft of torque at the crank!
I admit that that is nothing compared to an old big block motor, or a power adder, but I that's usable torque I can feel!
Matt
(that's with pullies, drop in air filter, and P&P stock intake plenum)
With LTs and full exhaust I have dynod at 311 STD RWTQ, that equates to (adding 15% drivetrain loss) 365 lb/ft of torque at the crank!
I admit that that is nothing compared to an old big block motor, or a power adder, but I that's usable torque I can feel!
Matt
(that's with pullies, drop in air filter, and P&P stock intake plenum)
Long tube headers are good for high highway speed efficiency. Shorty tube headers like JBA's 1 5/8 are more for short and quick pulling purpose which you will experience more HP and torque out of it at low speed. It is also CARB certified for California's strict emission so it is your best bet for the best torque out of any headers found on the market. 4.10 gear, upgraded cold air intake, free flow exhausts, cams and tuner would do great on the torque thing. If you want the extremes for the ultimate torque to play on along with engine mods, get the Strange's 35 Spline with 35 spline alloy axles 5/8 stud kit designed especially for 8.8 differential and one-piece driveshaft, it will give you the mad torque yet smoother moving and improved MPG slightly.
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