I Need Advice!

[Ethan Keirn]

Hello! New here, I am a young enthusiast that is eager to learn about cars, I recently bought a 1998 GT with a 5 speed and the 4.6 V8, I am contemplating swapping in a 302 as their parts are cheaper and easier to obtain, from what I have been reading its prettt expensive/difficult to build a 4.6, let me know what yall think and how to do it Thanks

 

[squeak93]

Sell the car and buy a 94/95 if you want a pushrod. I'm not sure why you want to go slower though.

 

[Ethan Keirn]

Sell the car and buy a 94/95 if you want a pushrod. I'm not sure why you want to go slower though.

Well the idea was to keep the 4.6 for the time being and pull a junked 302, rebuild it, put some better heads on it, mild cam, then maybe some headers ans reinstall it in the car

 

[RaggedGT]

Sell the car and buy a 94/95 if you want a pushrod. I'm not sure why you want to go slower though.

 

[Noobz347]

There's no way I'd do that conversion and I'm a 5oh type. Maybe if it were a 96/97 but that motor you have runs pretty well. You'd have to scrap the whole motor, k-member, harness, all sensors, and the ECU and replace it all with push-rod stuff, not to mention adapting transmission, gauge clusters, air-bags... the list goes on.

All you really need to do is boost what you got or build it a little and then boost it. Superchargers are simple to install. Tuning is the biggest hurdle (better to have this setup in advance or along with install).

Can it be done? Certainly. Is it worth it? Meh... Maybe if you have something like this in mind:

 

[Dark04GT]

Hello! New here, I am a young enthusiast that is eager to learn about cars, I recently bought a 1998 GT with a 5 speed and the 4.6 V8, I am contemplating swapping in a 302 as their parts are cheaper and easier to obtain, from what I have been reading its prettt expensive/difficult to build a 4.6, let me know what yall think and how to do it Thanks

Definitely would not drop a push rod 5.0 in there.

Whatever you read about 4.6's being hard to build must have been old school advice. There is a huge aftermarket of parts and tons of options to go fast.

I would first do all the routine maintenance that is due (and learn to do it yourself) and get your car in good shape. Examples: spark plugs, oil change, new coolant, flush brake lines, check all your rubber hoses and belts, new shocks/struts (I'm partial to bilsteins), and get tires that match your goals (wider rims usually and the stickiest street tire you can afford nitto 555's from Americanmuscle.com is a good street tire for your power level).

After you get everything in great order i'd stiffen up the chassis with something like this: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Chassis-Brace-Package-1998-04-Mustang-HT-GT-P313.aspx

Your car will then be in great shape for any further mods (boost and suspension parts are always great ideas)

 

[Ethan Keirn]

Definitely would not drop a push rod 5.0 in there.

Whatever you read about 4.6's being hard to build must have been old school advice. There is a huge aftermarket of parts and tons of options to go fast.

I would first do all the routine maintenance that is due (and learn to do it yourself) and get your car in good shape. Examples: spark plugs, oil change, new coolant, flush brake lines, check all your rubber hoses and belts, new shocks/struts (I'm partial to bilsteins), and get tires that match your goals (wider rims usually and the stickiest street tire you can afford nitto 555's from Americanmuscle.com is a good street tire for your power level).

After you get everything in great order i'd stiffen up the chassis with something like this: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Chassis-Brace-Package-1998-04-Mustang-HT-GT-P313.aspx

Your car will then be in great shape for any further mods (boost and suspension parts are always great ideas)[/QUOTE well where can I find parts for it? i have been having trouble finding parts within my price bracket it seems like these mod motors are really expensive to build

 

[Ethan Keirn]

There's no way I'd do that conversion and I'm a 5oh type. Maybe if it were a 96/97 but that motor you have runs pretty well. You'd have to scrap the whole motor, k-member, harness, all sensors, and the ECU and replace it all with push-rod stuff, not to mention adapting transmission, gauge clusters, air-bags... the list goes on.

All you really need to do is boost what you got or build it a little and then boost it. Superchargers are simple to install. Tuning is the biggest hurdle (better to have this setup in advance or along with install).

Can it be done? Certainly. Is it worth it? Meh... Maybe if you have something like this in mind:

Well hypothetically speaking could you tell me what would be required to swap in a 302, just to be clear, the plan would be to rebuild a junked engine and just keep it on a stand and replace stuff like the heads, cam, etc. with after market components and then when its all done swap it into my car, im not working with the biggest budget so its gotta be a gradual thing yaknow

 

[wmburns]

To the OP, do you want real advice or people to agree with you?

If you want REAL advice the you should answer some questions honestly. For example:

• What are your real goals of this project and what are their priorities? For example is it to "save $$". Or do you just like "old school" push rod motors? Or go fast for the least $$?
• What are your HP goals when done?
• Does the car have to pass inspection?
• HOW do you expect the car to drive once done? For example like a car that your Wife/GF would drive (stock like) or like a race car?
• Do you want AC?
• What is the budget to make all of the project goals happen?

I contend that no one out in Internet land can give YOU any real advice until honest answers to difficult questions such as above are given.

Warning. A little tough love follows.

Something to consider. If wanting to learn about cars then why not learn about the car that you already own? Anything learned about a more modern car that actually uses ODB2 has got to be more applicable to fixing today's cars than an OVH distributor driven pre ODB2 motor.

Signed.
Ward Cleaver

 

[Ethan Keirn]

My budget is no more than $3000
I want some "low buck" speed, yes it has to pass inspection and im not looking for much more than 300rwhp and i would prefer to make such power goals reliably and i already have a decent understanding of basic maintenance, i want more oomph to my ride and i have people that will help me do the work, by the way i dont have 3grand just laying around im just saying i wouldnt want to spend much more than that, i just need to know the ins and outs of a 302 swap and how well it would work put in the long run
Thanks

 

[Ethan Keirn]

My budget is no more than $3000
I want some "low buck" speed, yes it has to pass inspection and im not looking for much more than 300rwhp and i would prefer to make such power goals reliably and i already have a decent understanding of basic maintenance, i want more oomph to my ride and i have people that will help me do the work, by the way i dont have 3grand just laying around im just saying i wouldnt want to spend much more than that, i just need to know the ins and outs of a 302 swap and how well it would work put in the long run
Thanks

Also i would like to beat any Z28 that pulls up next to me

 

[wmburns]

My budget is no more than $3000
I want some "low buck" speed, yes it has to pass inspection

Next question. What are your plans for engine management? With having to pass inspection that means because your current car is ODB2 then it will have to remain compatible with ODB2 afterwards to pass inspection.

Have you considered how you would get around the "visual inspection" part of any ODB2 level inspection?

Have you priced things like:

• the motor itself
• Fuel induction
• Air induction
• the planned upgrades to the motor
• new K-member
• new transmission (modular transmission won't bolt up 5.0 OHV)
• new custom length drive shaft
• engine management system.
• and so on.

I don't see all of that coming in less than 3k. But you should be the one to price this out and see for yourself.

Also i would like to beat any Z28 that pulls up next to me

Just to make sure. We are talking about a 500 HP Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 right? To beat a 500 HP car with a 300 HP car would require a serious weight reduction advantage. Likely means that you will be driving a car with no interior and only one seat.

 

[Ethan Keirn]

Next question. What are your plans for engine management? With having to pass inspection that means because your current car is ODB2 then it will have to remain compatible with ODB2 afterwards to pass inspection.

Have you considered how you would get around the "visual inspection" part of any ODB2 level inspection?

Have you priced things like:

• the motor itself
• the planned upgrades to the motor
• new K-member
• new transmission
• new drive shaft
• engine management system.
• and so on.

I don't see all of that coming in less than 3k. But you should be the one to price this out and see for yourself.


Just to make sure. We are talking about a 500 HP Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 right? To beat a 500 HP car with a 300 HP car would require a serious weight reduction advantage. Likely means that you will be driving a car with no interior and only one seat.

No i was just joking around with that lol i dont intend on racing a whole lot of people i just wanna go fast

 

[Dark04GT]

Definitely would not drop a push rod 5.0 in there.

Whatever you read about 4.6's being hard to build must have been old school advice. There is a huge aftermarket of parts and tons of options to go fast.

I would first do all the routine maintenance that is due (and learn to do it yourself) and get your car in good shape. Examples: spark plugs, oil change, new coolant, flush brake lines, check all your rubber hoses and belts, new shocks/struts (I'm partial to bilsteins), and get tires that match your goals (wider rims usually and the stickiest street tire you can afford nitto 555's from Americanmuscle.com is a good street tire for your power level).

After you get everything in great order i'd stiffen up the chassis with something like this: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Chassis-Brace-Package-1998-04-Mustang-HT-GT-P313.aspx

Your car will then be in great shape for any further mods (boost and suspension parts are always great ideas)

What I gave you before will give you a reliable car with good traction. With that solid base you can add a 100 shot nitrous kit and have a solid performer. Bang for buck is definitely in focusing on power adders (nitrous / boost) - not the motor. You will spend tons of money on the motor for very little gains compared where you would be with a power adder. I have a set of blower cams- otherwise my 4.6L is stock and I am making a good power. Your motor can make similar power with a power adder.

Like other people have mentioned - swapping to an older Ford pushrod motor means you have to find a good complete motor and every electrical component / accessory. You spend thousands upon thousands to still only have a couple more horses. See this chart: https://lmr.com/products/94-04-Mustang-Engine-HP-Horsepower-Specs

If you want a pushrod 5.0 I would sell your car and go buy a 94-95 GT (If i were you - I would keep your 98gt and keep your current 4.6)

A Bolt-on blower kit would put you in the mid-300 rear wheel hp range and would run you about $5k. This would blow the doors off the above push-rod motor for the same price point (if you can even find all the components and get them installed for this price point) and a bolt on blower kit is a very friendly daily driver.
Example: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vor-4fh218-070l/applications
Plus at least 42lb injectors and a SCT tuner

If you really, really, really wanting to do a motor swap then I would look at the 5.0 coyote motor swap. Several people have done this swap- then you are placing a new 400hp+ Aluminum motor. That is a worthwhile swap if you have the patience to save up to be able to afford it.

 

[Saberstang]

I would first do all the routine maintenance that is due (and learn to do it yourself) and get your car in good shape. Examples: spark plugs, oil change, new coolant, flush brake lines, check all your rubber hoses and belts, new shocks/struts (I'm partial to bilsteins), and get tires that match your goals (wider rims usually and the stickiest street tire you can afford nitto 555's from Americanmuscle.com is a good street tire for your power level).

The 4.6L engine isn't too hard to work on and can actually be easy once you learn and have knowledge of these engines. Having once owned a 94 GT I can tell you from experience that the 5.0 302 push rod engine can be more complicated to work on and diagnose. It is not worth the money/time spent to install a 5.0 302 in your 98 GT. If you are dead set on a 5.0 302 just sell your 98 GT and purchase a 94 or 95 GT it would be the best choice. If you keep your 98 GT depending on what direction you want to take with your car upgrading your car for forced induction would be wise. Forge your internals and go forced induction would be my advice.

 

[Ethan Keirn]

Thanks for the tips i think ive got the idea now Now just out of general curiosity what if I was to do a 3v swap and then a blower? Would that give better power? It should be a direct swap right, assuming i can find a lower mileage wrecked stang in a junkyard or something

 

[Dark04GT]

Thanks for the tips i think ive got the idea now Now just out of general curiosity what if I was to do a 3v swap and then a blower? Would that give better power? It should be a direct swap right, assuming i can find a lower mileage wrecked stang in a junkyard or something

This swap has been done a number of times. The advantage is that you are going from a modular to a modular platfor. The downside is to get the full 3v bang for buck you need the 3v full wiring harness $1600~). See this article for a variety of common swaps. http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mdmp-1004-modular-engine-swap-wiring/

While the swap is interesting..... again if your budget is tight and you are just learning- a motor swap to another engine type is a ton of work and you can run into tons of speed bumps.

 

[Ethan Keirn]

This swap has been done a number of times. The advantage is that you are going from a modular to a modular platfor. The downside is to get the full 3v bang for buck you need the 3v full wiring harness $1600~). See this article for a variety of common swaps. http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mdmp-1004-modular-engine-swap-wiring/

While the swap is interesting..... again if your budget is tight and you are just learning- a motor swap to another engine type is a ton of work and you can run into tons of speed bumps.

I gotcha i appreciate the insight although i am not the most experienced i am pretty capable of performing maintenance on my vehicle and i have people to help me along the way, would it be possible to just pull a 3v from a wrecked stang wiring harness and all? I couldnt imagine the junkyard charging too much for the whole set, and again this is all a hypothetical im just exploring my options

 

[wmburns]

would it be possible to just pull a 3v from a wrecked stang wiring harness and all?

Electrically the 1999-2004 is a very different car than the 2005+ model year. Unless you are trying to re-engineer the whole car (electrically) the way to do a 3V swap is to retain the ORIGINAL wiring harness and PCM. What most people do is to use the 3V cam phases lock outs to "fix/lock" the cam timing. The 2V PCM will run a 3V motor with a tune.

Expect some issues with the fuel rails, fuel pressure sensor, intake, exhaust manifolds, drive shaft (length). The swap has been done and there are kits out there to help.

BUT........This still leaves the problem of passing inspection. The 3V motor does not have an external EGR system. Where as the 2V does. The problem just begin with the lack of an EGR port on the 3V exhaust manifolds. Of course it's possible to disable EGR in the tune but this will stop the readiness monitors from becoming "ready".

If you are dead set on swapping in a motor from a different car consider a Romeo PI from a 2001+ Grand Marquis, Crown Vic or Town Car. The swap is straight forward and will give the HP bump that the PI heads provide (with a tune). The PI 4.6's are readily available in the salvage yards for very good $$. Best of all the car will pass any inspection after done.

 

[Sketchy_GT]

The ford 4.6 Mod Motor were some of the best bang for your buck motors ford had produced in a long time, plus they are fairly simple to work on. If i was was gonna recommend a car/motor to learn with it would definitely be a 4.6 car.