Looking for Idea/advice on build

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 11, 2019

A 69 351 isn't any stronger than any other 351w. It has a shorter deck. A 69 351 w has a 9.480 deck height.

Steel1 · Feb 12, 2019

Early blocks (casting ID C9OE-6015-B) had enough metal on bearing saddles 2, 3, and 4 for four-bolt mains, and as with all small-block Fords (SBFs), were superior in strength to most late-model, lightweight castings. Generally, the 1969 to 1974 blocks are considered to be far superior in strength than the later blocks, making these early units some of the strongest and most desirable in the entire SBF engine family

This is what I was referring to( not my words), take it or leave it but no matter what year it's much stronger than stock 302w.
Also the early 351 blocks are not roller cam, either drill/tap the valley for a spider tray or
use a set of link bar lifters, I went with link bars.

RangerJoe · Feb 12, 2019

Sometimes we cripple ourselves with budgets and deadlines. Believe me, I understand a budget, but I think you should extend your deadline for finishing this thing, meaning, longer to save.

Lots of opinions and experiences in here, but if you bought a dart or boss block, it would be the last block you would need for years. You can literally clean the bores up 4 or 5 times at .030 over and still have a stronger block than anything stock.

Down time and money now or down time and money later as you fix it over and over.

Joe

TOOLOW91 · Feb 12, 2019

So im going to throw my .02 in here for what it’s worth . I have been around the block with this a few times but I am no expert so take it for what it’s worth .

Sticking cast , junk externally balanced stuff in a Dart block is a pure waist of money , whether it’s free or not it’s still going to cost you in the long run.
If you do a Dart build and you are committed to it then it’s time to step up . I have rpm crank and rods in mine . While cheap I have no issues but it’s all internally balanced . We have another car that used to run 4.90s with one at 8000 plus rpm .

You cannot go through the hoops of building a Dart based setup and then throw gt40s on it . Whether they are the best gt40s in the world or stock . I did the same with 170cc trick flows due to budget and guess what ? I kicked myself in the ass everytime I drove the car . That’s up to you though . Next is the chassis and the fuel system as well as the drivetrain up to snuff with supporting the extra power this thing can make once it has all of this ?

All stuff you need to consider . 351 based deal would fit the bill but I understand why that’s out .

You have to take all this into account and while everyone has a budget if you go Dart don’t half ass it . Forget your local machine guy as he isn’t competent .

Call woody at ford strokers
Zach at ZSR racing engines

Two guys that do phenomenal machine work . If your on IG also there is Nate ( steeldustmachine ) out of sonoma California who is an awesome engine builder too . Any questions don’t hesitate to ask me .

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

Yeah let's pump the brakes a bit, after a nice long discussion over the phone with a few members I think I am going to just fix what I have.
This is why, it's all going into a convertible. I don't race the car except for very occasionally. If I do this monster engine that needs heads ect ect... were in balls deep at 5k+ for a long block... now what? Oh yeah that t5 ain't gonna hold now I need a trans, 4lug 28 spline c clip axles wont do the job. Now the car needs structural reinforcement to handle and plant all that power..... the snowball keep on rolling.

I don't think I need a dart block anymore, I think I need a better machinist.

HotFox · Feb 12, 2019

I would not recommend a cast crank between balance and flex or lack of it will eat your rod and or main bearing if you start to push it.

I run a stock 1992 Thunderbird 302 block NA out to 331CID 470hp 8000rpm. Light pistons, forged SCAT or Probe 28oz balanced crank, SCAT or Probe (cant remember) forged rods, main studs and everything in the short block was Chrogenic treated after machining is my recipe. Been together since 2009 with 100's of 1/4 passes and about 6000 street miles. Only this replaced was valve springs since this is a solid roller. I built it and I have built engines for a living in the past.
Do I think there is main cap walk and bore distortion at 8K absolutely. Will it eventually fail? maybe? Then I will build a big bore Dart 347.

I guess my point is my success was due to spending good money on parts where I needed to and meticuously assembled and tuned it.
Scott

CarMichael Angelo · Feb 12, 2019

Look....the common consensus here is to build the 351. Even n/a a 393 will meet your power goals.
Once you get this thing making decent power n/a, with a decent set of heads, put your blower on it. You built the one intake, build another. ( I know a guy that has to build his own intakes, and he recently built a whole different system despite the fact that he a really good looking, perfectly working piece already).
The "drop in another stock block 5.0, transfer your stuff over, and run it till it blows" is flawed...Do you really want to have to do this over again?
A 351 has a wider deck. There will be more room for the injector rails, and the blower itself It's gonna make more torque even at n/a. you won't have to blow 11-12 psi into it to get to the 5.0 block killing 500ft lbs. You'l have your looks, you'll have your sound. And, if you found a stock bore 69 casting, what's stopping you?

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

CarMichael Angelo said:
Look....the common consensus here is to build the 351. Even n/a a 393 will meet your power goals.
Once you get this thing making decent power n/a, with a decent set of heads, put your blower on it. You built the one intake, build another. ( I know a guy that has to build his own intakes, and he recently built a whole different system despite the fact that he a really good looking, perfectly working piece already).
The "drop in another stock block 5.0, transfer your stuff over, and run it till it blows" is flawed...Do you really want to have to do this over again?
A 351 has a wider deck. There will be more room for the injector rails, and the blower itself It's gonna make more torque even at n/a. you won't have to blow 11-12 psi into it to get to the 5.0 block killing 500ft lbs. You'l have your looks, you'll have your sound. And, if you found a stock bore 69 casting, what's stopping you?

What all from the 302 can be used in the 393? can i use my cam ect??

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

found this deal.... I wonder what they use in the short block on these???
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/bpo/d/naples-351-long-blocks-and-exhuast/6809287317.html

STEVE PATTON · Feb 12, 2019

check it out,but I think all marine engines have steel cranks

TOOLOW91 · Feb 12, 2019

a91what said:
Yeah let's pump the brakes a bit, after a nice long discussion over the phone with a few members I think I am going to just fix what I have.
This is why, it's all going into a convertible. I don't race the car except for very occasionally. If I do this monster engine that needs heads ect ect... were in balls deep at 5k+ for a long block... now what? Oh yeah that t5 ain't gonna hold now I need a trans, 4lug 28 spline c clip axles wont do the job. Now the car needs structural reinforcement to handle and plant all that power..... the snowball keep on rolling.

I don't think I need a dart block anymore, I think I need a better machinist.

Exactly why I noted all that in my explanation . It isn’t just building a short block or a long block for that matter I had that notion at one time . Never the case.

Find a real machinist . You’re In Florida judging by the craigslist add you shared ? Take the short block to MPR .

TOOLOW91 · Feb 12, 2019

a91what said:
What all from the 302 can be used in the 393? can i use my cam ect??

Again even with a 393 . You use a cam and heads for a 302 , you get 302 results for more effort to make it all work .

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

TOOLOW91 said:
Exactly why I noted all that in my explanation . It isn’t just building a short block or a long block for that matter I had that notion at one time . Never the case.

Find a real machinist . You’re In Florida judging by the craigslist add you shared ? Take the short block to MPR .

yes i am in Florida.... the 2 351 factory sealed engines look tempting..... swap the heads and cam some link lifters and spacers for my blower.... swap pan ect... and have parts to sell off.

KZGUNS · Feb 12, 2019

$900for both? I'd get on that and resell the counter rotation for 900 you're in FL so that CR motor would prob. sell. make sure they weren't under water though oh and ask how many hours. the boats i've had cruised at high rpm like 3500-5000 on the gm 350 i had in one of them. edit missed where it said factory rebuilt...

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

they are literally still on crates wrapped in plastic with the mercruiser stickers

Gear grabber · Feb 12, 2019

a91what said:
found this deal.... I wonder what they use in the short block on these???
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/bpo/d/naples-351-long-blocks-and-exhuast/6809287317.html

Avoid anything that has been in salt water.

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

I sent him an email, they are about 3hrs south of me

General karthief · Feb 12, 2019

Go back and read post #39
I will add find another machine shop.

a91what · Feb 12, 2019

General karthief said:
Go back and read post #39
I will add find another machine shop.

Ill have an extra 351....

FastDriver · Feb 12, 2019

LS swap...

Looking for Idea/advice on build

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If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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