Electric fans really don't offer a foxbody anything more than clearance.
There is almost no power to be had (even if you remove the whole damn belt, the gains are minimal).
The fan clutch is nearly bullet proof and even if it locks up or free wheels, it will still do enough to get you home.
I'm not sure what it costs to set up an electric fan these days, but i'd have to guess $300-$400 all in maybe more if you need a better alternator?
It's almost comical when guys spend that money to get less than 5rwhp then run mediocre engine performance parts.
And don't think it's just foxbody guys that go down the electric fan route and have issues, it happens to plenty of other hot rodders too.
I know it can work, but factory designed electric fan systems are so much more reliable. It just one of those things that it very well may not be worth retrofitting.
In billisons case, i'd put the stock fan back in, because if you are anything like me, you'll be driving around staring at the gauge waiting for it to fail. And we all know that's not fun.
There is almost no power to be had (even if you remove the whole damn belt, the gains are minimal).
The fan clutch is nearly bullet proof and even if it locks up or free wheels, it will still do enough to get you home.
I'm not sure what it costs to set up an electric fan these days, but i'd have to guess $300-$400 all in maybe more if you need a better alternator?
It's almost comical when guys spend that money to get less than 5rwhp then run mediocre engine performance parts.
And don't think it's just foxbody guys that go down the electric fan route and have issues, it happens to plenty of other hot rodders too.
I know it can work, but factory designed electric fan systems are so much more reliable. It just one of those things that it very well may not be worth retrofitting.
In billisons case, i'd put the stock fan back in, because if you are anything like me, you'll be driving around staring at the gauge waiting for it to fail. And we all know that's not fun.
I changed to the electric fan mostly because I didn't like the whoooosh of the clutch fan. It took away from my enjoyment of the engine sound.
Have I had problems with e-fans? Well, yes. I finally have the hot setup now though, DCC and Mark VIII fan. But now for some reason my engine runs so cool, it never comes on except when I run the A/C.
Have I had problems with e-fans? Well, yes. I finally have the hot setup now though, DCC and Mark VIII fan. But now for some reason my engine runs so cool, it never comes on except when I run the A/C.
I've done back to back testing and picked up a pretty nice gain by removing the fan and going to underdrive pullies. So, I can't agree with this. Initially, I bought "Black Jack" with underdrive pullies, took them off for stockers, and then was forced to concede that the difference was worthwhile and put them back on. You can read about that in Black Jack's progress thread.
I have Flex A Lite Black Magic rad and e fan and using the controller that came with the kit. Even with 3g alt I had some charging issues at idle and was considering going back to mechanical. Then my alt wiring overheated at the alt connections. I discovered my wiring was below par all along. I replaced with new 3g and really beefed up the wiring. I’ve had no further problems since then. Charging will drop a little at idle but not enough to cause a problem. All this is with underdrive crank pulley (built in to Vortec pulley) so I’m not changing it.
Everything is working good on my e setup. But I must admit, going back to the reliability of mechanical is tempting.
Everything is working good on my e setup. But I must admit, going back to the reliability of mechanical is tempting.
I do agree the stock setup looks much better. Never been a fan of my overflow setup at all.
But I can't really say my setup hasn't been reliable. Even with unferdrives, I rarely even need the fan. As long as I'm moving my car will stay cool.
Untilmateky I'll stick with it. I will be integrating it into the Megasquirt setup though using a Factory Volvo PWM controller if I can figure out the wiring.
But I can't really say my setup hasn't been reliable. Even with unferdrives, I rarely even need the fan. As long as I'm moving my car will stay cool.
Untilmateky I'll stick with it. I will be integrating it into the Megasquirt setup though using a Factory Volvo PWM controller if I can figure out the wiring.
I made the mistake of not buying the integrated overflow with my Ron Davis Radiator. I don't like the way my canton overflow has to be positioned, at the moment.
Man...I've been searching for an overflow solution for my car. I just don't like the moroso and I think it's too small. I made a view window and when cool you can't see the coolant....when warm it starts to drip out of the overflow vent on the top...total POS.
What size is your bottle ?
Something I've always wondered when switching from a stock fan set-up to e-fans with a 3G alternator. We all know you can save a couple horsepower by taking off the clutch fan....but how much horsepower does it take to spin the 3G alternator when it now has to make up the amperage for the e-fan? Could we potentially be talking 50-70 amps output to keep the electrical system up to par? I have not found this info or heard of it anywhere. Just seeing if somebody has some numbers.
I have thought about ditching the stock clutch fan, but until I see real world numbers to the scenario above, I'm not sure I'm 100% convinced.
If Ford thought E-fans were the answer, why did they only use them on the four cylinder cars and not the V-8s? There's gotta be a reason.
Just throwing that out there to think about.
Dave
Good question, but a few points:
- If you're at a track and disable your fan for a pass, then it will place no electro-magnetic load on the alternator.
- If you're on the highway and air moves through the radiator sufficiently at speed, same deal... you save fuel economy
- Even at full load, a 200 amp alternator at 14v to be safe is 14*200 = 2,800 Watts. 1 hp = 746 Watts. So, that's less than 4hp at 100% efficiency. Even if you double or triple that to account for alternator inefficiency, it only brings you back to equal with the mechanical fan. (This link with sources seems to indicate a 7-8hp draw from a 150 amp alternator). Keep in mind, that's not just the fan, but all electrical draw for a car with a beefy alternator's max draw.
- from a physics perspective, converting kinetic energy from the engine into electrical energy and then back into kinetic energy in the fan should be less efficient than transferring kinetic energy directly into the fan, but the design of the stock fan is visually, very clearly, not as efficient as some of the electric fan curved blade designs.
- Your point about why Ford didn't go with electric fans on the V8s doesn't account for SN95 and beyond mustang V8s, including the 302W.. It doesn't account for the V8s we're pulling these OEM fans off of. Ford did a lot of things with the 5.0s that left plenty of room for improvement, which is part of what made these cars so rewarding to work on.
- If you're at a track and disable your fan for a pass, then it will place no electro-magnetic load on the alternator.
- If you're on the highway and air moves through the radiator sufficiently at speed, same deal... you save fuel economy
- Even at full load, a 200 amp alternator at 14v to be safe is 14*200 = 2,800 Watts. 1 hp = 746 Watts. So, that's less than 4hp at 100% efficiency. Even if you double or triple that to account for alternator inefficiency, it only brings you back to equal with the mechanical fan. (This link with sources seems to indicate a 7-8hp draw from a 150 amp alternator). Keep in mind, that's not just the fan, but all electrical draw for a car with a beefy alternator's max draw.
- from a physics perspective, converting kinetic energy from the engine into electrical energy and then back into kinetic energy in the fan should be less efficient than transferring kinetic energy directly into the fan, but the design of the stock fan is visually, very clearly, not as efficient as some of the electric fan curved blade designs.
- Your point about why Ford didn't go with electric fans on the V8s doesn't account for SN95 and beyond mustang V8s, including the 302W.. It doesn't account for the V8s we're pulling these OEM fans off of. Ford did a lot of things with the 5.0s that left plenty of room for improvement, which is part of what made these cars so rewarding to work on.
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An interesting document on alternator efficiency: http://www.delcoremy.com/documents/high-efficiency-white-paper.aspx
Take away: Alternators' electrical efficiency is in the neighborhood of 55%. A Mark VIII fan pulls 30-40 amps ( LINK). Call it 40 amps and again 14v to be conservative (high-side estimate) of power: (40*14)/(746*0.55) = 1.4hp draw from the electric motor.
Someone said earlier that the Mark VIII fan pulls more than a stock clutch fan. I suppose that's possible, but I really doubt it without seeing the numbers. 4k CFM, which I think is a high estimate, might be enough airflow to get the job done, but I'll bet the stock fan still pulls more. I could open the door, reach under my car, and feel the airflow from the stock fan when I revved. Stock fan moves some SERIOUS air. So, I'm skeptical that's only the proclaims 3k CFM or that an electric fan actually moves 4k. I've heard these numbers for a long time, but I don't put a ton of faith into them, even though I know both approaches get the job done.
Take away: Alternators' electrical efficiency is in the neighborhood of 55%. A Mark VIII fan pulls 30-40 amps ( LINK). Call it 40 amps and again 14v to be conservative (high-side estimate) of power: (40*14)/(746*0.55) = 1.4hp draw from the electric motor.
Someone said earlier that the Mark VIII fan pulls more than a stock clutch fan. I suppose that's possible, but I really doubt it without seeing the numbers. 4k CFM, which I think is a high estimate, might be enough airflow to get the job done, but I'll bet the stock fan still pulls more. I could open the door, reach under my car, and feel the airflow from the stock fan when I revved. Stock fan moves some SERIOUS air. So, I'm skeptical that's only the proclaims 3k CFM or that an electric fan actually moves 4k. I've heard these numbers for a long time, but I don't put a ton of faith into them, even though I know both approaches get the job done.
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I think Ford didn't put a whole lot of effort on the Fox as they focused on replacing it with the probe. not much changed at all after 1987 as they focused first on the probe and then the sn95.
One of the first things I did after the burnout when racing at the track is id turn the e fan off. I believe they are more of a restriction after 40mph anyway.