Thoughts on using this setup on 351 build

from6to8 · Oct 10, 2019

General karthief said:
Thats going to be scientific mathematical stuff with a bit of velocity/turbulence theory tossed in. WAY above my pay grade.
i can tell you that the air needs to be able to move smoothly but not be lazy about it. In reality if you size the tube to the throttle body just a little bigger and keep the tube size into and out of the maf the same on a mildly modified street engine you'll be good.

Yeah from what you're saying it's not cut-and-dry it almost sounds like you're saying play it on a tube needs to be the same size on the throttle body hand and the mouth and the meter and. A guy just chimed in on the groups on Facebook told me he bought a March box Ram air box that protects the filter inside the bay and so I'm waiting his reply on how cool to fix the filter. If I like what I hear from him I'll just put the fender in the bay with that box and run probably the spe tube and just use the first portion of the tube coming off the throttle body

General karthief · Oct 10, 2019

Are you running a super charger?
are you sure you're not over thinking this? Without going back through this thread to see what you are trying to do let me say the best air intake system for a mild street build is the stock air box with a k&n filter.
i will call bull on the 5* difference between the engine compartment and the cavity inside the fender when the car is in motion, maybe setting in traffic at a light with extended idle time the temp between the two can get close to the same. It also is dependent on filter container too, if you look at the pic of the air box on the facepage you posted I bet it is thin plastic which offers no heat insulation at all where as the stock air box is a thicker fiber type material. You could also wrap the pipes between the air box- to maf and the maf to tb with something like dynomat to lower the intake temp, in reality you will not notice a difference unless your engine compartment is on fire.
Once again this is just the ramblings of a back yard hot rodder and in no way an example of any real mechanical training.
Here is an example of 'why did they change that and what is the difference ', the 5.0 ho engine in the fox mustang has the act sensor (air intake temp sensor) in the lower intake manifold but the 5.0 ho in the explorer placed it in the air box.

from6to8 · Oct 10, 2019

General karthief said:
Are you running a super charger?
are you sure you're not over thinking this? Without going back through this thread to see what you are trying to do let me say the best air intake system for a mild street build is the stock air box with a k&n filter.
i will call bull on the 5* difference between the engine compartment and the cavity inside the fender when the car is in motion, maybe setting in traffic at a light with extended idle time the temp between the two can get close to the same. It also is dependent on filter container too, if you look at the pic of the air box on the facepage you posted I bet it is thin plastic which offers no heat insulation at all where as the stock air box is a thicker fiber type material. You could also wrap the pipes between the air box- to maf and the maf to tb with something like dynomat to lower the intake temp, in reality you will not notice a difference unless your engine compartment is on fire.
Once again this is just the ramblings of a back yard hot rodder and in no way an example of any real mechanical training.
Here is an example of 'why did they change that and what is the difference ', the 5.0 ho engine in the fox mustang has the act sensor (air intake temp sensor) in the lower intake manifold but the 5.0 ho in the explorer placed it in the air box.

No it's naturally aspirated and the design of that box from what the guy told me it's still pulls air from the fender well. I would say it's pretty thick because he looks like he has an ignition box mounted to the top of it. One thing I have to consider is if I used the silicone hose for the tubing like he did I'd have to see how I would Mount the ACT sensor. With a metal tube of course I would drill and tap the hole for it

General karthief · Oct 10, 2019

Your act sensor is not in the lower intake?

from6to8 · Oct 10, 2019

General karthief said:
Your act sensor is not in the lower intake?

No because I have a 95. It's in the lower intake for The fox

General karthief · Oct 10, 2019

It's in the filter box then, you can put it in the pipe, if it is rubber hose just drill a hole smaller than the thread diameter and use a small amount clear rtv to seal it up.

from6to8 · Oct 10, 2019

General karthief said:
It's in the filter box then, you can put it in the pipe, if it is rubber hose just drill a hole smaller than the thread diameter and use a small amount clear rtv to seal it up.

Alrighty

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

a91what said:
this is what i am building... 180cc head with a mild 224/236 57x lift on a 114... should make a very nice street car and have a nice broad torque curve...

Hey Steve what did you build and did you follow through with this plan?

Here's what I just asked this guy who I was talking to yesterday on fb messenger and awaiting his reply:

whats up Harry. Did you have or drive a car with around 400 ish rwhp then one with around 450 ish? Like you said with your 408 that was supercharged and what you would have done differently, I'd want to build what I can enjoy on the street without it being too sensitive to where I have to be super careful just street cruising lol. So between my 300-10 hp car to the 500 hp 04, I'd want something in between. Do you think 400 ish would be more to my liking? Would around 450 be too much you think or too sensitive? The car will be a little heavy with 18 inch wheels, 295 35's out back 265 35 18s on front, I'll use the 3.55 rear end setup that came out of the other car

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

Hoytster said:
Since you said you have a goal of a more street able, torquey engine, I wouldn't worry about the limited throttle body size issue and just run a 75MM R Intake with matching elbow and throttle body. You can make plenty of power with a 75mm throttle body in the 1500-5500 RPM range on a mild stroke 351.
Having the filter in the engine bay is a negative, but it's not as big a deal as some make it out to be.

Now if you are truly looking for max power, that changes things...

now I'm revisiting this because I might actually use a 75 but re reading this thread to see what you guys said. I won't be trying to do a max build

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

revhead347 said:
Some things are exagurated. I think the peak torque rpm between a 302 and a 351 would be a few hundred RPM in difference. It's a lot of money and headache to go to a 351 block for a difference that will be hardly noticable.

Kurt

don't worry doing some research brought me back to my own thread lol.

If I did a 331 and follow a few builds I have in mind and net around 360-370 rwhp and around 370-390 maybe 400 ft lbs of torque or did a 400 or 408 and netted 400-450 hp and maybe 450-480 ft lbs of torque, are you saying that would be hardly noticeable , any of those numbers vs the other low end to low end or high to high?

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

revhead347 said:
I totally get what you are trying to accomplish. A car that is constantly bucking and chugging ends up being a car you never drive. I am full in on building cars that can be enjoyed on a daily basis. I just think going to a 351 block is more academic than practical. If you put the same heads on a 347 with a 114 lobe sep cam, I think it would come out about the same; or at least no noticable difference. There is a mountain of costs and headache saved by using the factory bolt in block. 351 swaps nickel and dime you to death if you want to run a perfect street car. Motor mounts, special headers that don't fit right and scrub on every speed bump, hood clearance, intake pipes that don't fit, oil pans that hang below the K-member, an AC compressor that hits the battery tray or clutch cable, etc, on and on. Not to mention the costs, special link bar lifters, special distributer, special lower intake, etc, all the other things mentioned as merely hassles. This is just my opinion, and I don't think going with a 351 block is a terrible idea. I just think it will need more swear words, and take many more hours and months that you are not driving your car.

Kurt

and then I read this after I just aaked those questions lol

a91what · Jul 11, 2023

I did a 393w with 9:1 compression 190cc heads and a 224/236 600 lift cam twin 64mm turbos at 7psi I am very happy with it.

from6to8 said:
Hey Steve what did you build and did you follow through with this plan?

Here's what I just asked this guy who I was talking to yesterday on fb messenger and awaiting his reply:

whats up Harry. Did you have or drive a car with around 400 ish rwhp then one with around 450 ish? Like you said with your 408 that was supercharged and what you would have done differently, I'd want to build what I can enjoy on the street without it being too sensitive to where I have to be super careful just street cruising lol. So between my 300-10 hp car to the 500 hp 04, I'd want something in between. Do you think 400 ish would be more to my liking? Would around 450 be too much you think or too sensitive? The car will be a little heavy with 18 inch wheels, 295 35's out back 265 35 18s on front, I'll use the 3.55 rear end setup that came out of the other car

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

a91what said:
I did a 393w with 9:1 compression 190cc heads and a 224/236 600 lift cam twin 64mm turbos at 7psi I am very happy with it.

nice nice but I'll be NA

AeroCoupe · Jul 11, 2023

This is just for reference. Not saying you should do one or the other just real world results.

The 351 in my T-Bird makes right at 500 at the crank with ported AFR 185’s, Vic Jr intake, 830 cfm carb, Comp Cam hydraulic roller 0.598/0.598 lift, 11:1 compression and custom long tubes with a custom exhaust. Drives smooth and will kill tires at will.

The 331 in my Coupe is right at 460 fwhp and I would have built a 347 but the 331 rotating assembly was cheap. Guy got in a bind and needed to unload it. Has intakes, FTI cam, ported heads and full exhaust. Drives good but it will be getting the Gen 3 MSPNP this winter and hoping I a91what will have time to tune it. I’m leaving some power under the curve with the A9L and SCT chip and I’m tired of going to a dyno and having to be on someone else’s schedule to tune it.

If you are going to go injected then MegaSquirt it and never look back.

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

AeroCoupe said:
This is just for reference. Not saying you should do one or the other just real world results.

The 351 in my T-Bird makes right at 500 at the crank with ported AFR 185’s, Vic Jr intake, 830 cfm carb, Comp Cam hydraulic roller 0.598/0.598 lift, 11:1 compression and custom long tubes with a custom exhaust. Drives smooth and will kill tires at will.

The 331 in my Coupe is right at 460 fwhp and I would have built a 347 but the 331 rotating assembly was cheap. Guy got in a bind and needed to unload it. Has intakes, FTI cam, ported heads and full exhaust. Drives good but it will be getting the Gen 3 MSPNP this winter and hoping I a91what will have time to tune it. I’m leaving some power under the curve with the A9L and SCT chip and I’m tired of going to a dyno and having to be on someone else’s schedule to tune it.

If you are going to go injected then MegaSquirt it and never look back.

Thinking about things and looking back over some of my notes and some of my other post from other forums today my mind has been on doing a 363. I remember a few guys builds and I kind of like what they got out of there even though they're build was a little more radical. I know some will say if you're going to do it 363 might as well do a 351 but the thing is I pulled two 302s and I put one in and with the one I just put in my '94 and even went from Shorty's on the last setup on the other car to LT's this time around n put a full cat back on put a clutch on for the first time and everything went pretty smooth so I feel a whole lot more comfortable doing it again versus fighting with a 351 even though I'm sure I could accomplish putting the 351 in as well. But I don't really want to have many or any headaches and really have to mod stuff even though it's only a few things to mod with the 351 getting to fit and running AC and all.

Now with your 331 and I guess it should have a roundabout what maybe 380ish rwhp how does it feel does it smoke the tires at will just like the 351 does in the other car? Yes I'm going to be fuel injected and I got to look back through my notes there was this one guy who I could buy the stuff and he could remote on it so I might go that route but also I know that a chip and Dyno tune would work for me as well because I'm not going to mess with the car for a very long time if at all once I put whatever I'm going to put in in it LOL

AeroCoupe · Jul 11, 2023

a91what is the guy to remote tune a Megasquirt install.

The 331 runs really well and made right at 370 to the rear wheels but the fuel system was pretty much maxed out and the CAI kit was not the best but that is now fixed as well. It runs hard but it has some quirks that would take a retune to fix but like I said it’s getting a Gen 3 MSPNP so no retune on the EEC and chip.

If you build a 363 you will have to go with a Dart block. The old saying of “if you build a 351 with 302 parts it will make 302 power” applies to the 363. Minimum would be a set of AFR 205 or similar heads and all the other parts to move all that displacement.

If all you want to make is 450 rwhp I would think a well planned stock block 347 can do that. Trick is keeping the shifts under 6000 so it lives. Stock blocks typically don’t live long reving above 6,000.

My 331 really likes it above 7,000 but that’s just asking for a pile of broken parts. It will be getting a better block in the next couple of years.

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

AeroCoupe said:
a91what is the guy to remote tune a Megasquirt install.

The 331 runs really well and made right at 370 to the rear wheels but the fuel system was pretty much maxed out and the CAI kit was not the best but that is now fixed as well. It runs hard but it has some quirks that would take a retune to fix but like I said it’s getting a Gen 3 MSPNP so no retune on the EEC and chip.

If you build a 363 you will have to go with a Dart block. The old saying of “if you build a 351 with 302 parts it will make 302 power” applies to the 363. Minimum would be a set of AFR 205 or similar heads and all the other parts to move all that displacement.

If all you want to make is 450 rwhp I would think a well planned stock block 347 can do that. Trick is keeping the shifts under 6000 so it lives. Stock blocks typically don’t live long reving above 6,000.

My 331 really likes it above 7,000 but that’s just asking for a pile of broken parts. It will be getting a better block in the next couple of years.

Yeah well the thing is in life sometimes you have to have a happy medium and my happy medium is I'm not going to try to Max a build and so for everything I'm thinking about with the 408 and trying to find a stop block that test good and for the aggravation of putting it in and me wishing I had not messed with it I might as well just build something uncomfortable doing and putting in and if that means I spend more money on a dark block so be it.

At the same time I don't necessarily have to Max the build of the 363 I've seen some setups from prestige Motorsports that uses either a 185cc head or 195cc head and 600 lift cam. Either of those should make around 400 to 425 to the wheel and they have three different ones actually but I have my eyes on either the 500 HP setup or the 530 HP setup. The 500 HP setup Doug said it will pull to about 6,000 and the 530 will pull to about 6,800. The reason I would want to do the 363 over to 347 is I don't want to have to baby it and worry about it breaking down the road so that means spending a little more money and getting something safe then I might just pull the trigger on that to be honest. With me and these cars it's unconventional wisdom a lot of times in at the end of the day I definitely will do what makes me or what makes the most sense to me regardless of what it may look like to other people LOL

AeroCoupe · Jul 11, 2023

Totally get it man. I honestly wish BluePrint would sell their four bolt main block (2, 3, & 4 are four bolt) as they say it will love at 700 all day long. That is a perfect block for the majority of 302 based stroker motors. Last time I emailed them they said not at this time. Thinking about bugging them again just because a Dart block is complete overkill for my 331.

from6to8 · Jul 11, 2023

AeroCoupe said:
Totally get it man. I honestly wish BluePrint would sell their four bolt main block (2, 3, & 4 are four bolt) as they say it will love at 700 all day long. That is a perfect block for the majority of 302 based stroker motors. Last time I emailed them they said not at this time. Thinking about bugging them again just because a Dart block is complete overkill for my 331.

So their block would be able to accept a 363? I actually was talking to a guy that doesn't live too far from me maybe a few hours or so he has a 302 Boss block new with a 331 kit stroker kit and I forgot what kind of pistons for nitrous but he was going to do nitrous and he told me if I didn't want to do nitrous I would just have to change you know change the Pistons or whatever. But yeah I think a 363 would be perfect for me and if there was another option beside a dark block and then yeah I'm all about saving as much as I can

AeroCoupe · Jul 11, 2023

I just emailed them so I expect disappointment tomorrow.

I don’t know if their block has enough cylinder wall for a 363 but it might. I just want it for my 331 so I can turn ts over 7000 and not worry about it. Would most likely run a solid roller at that point. And yes solid rollers can be daily driven.

Thoughts on using this setup on 351 build

There's suction so I used that end O_O

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

There's suction so I used that end O_O

Attachments

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

There's suction so I used that end O_O

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

There's suction so I used that end O_O

There's suction so I used that end O_O

There's suction so I used that end O_O

There's suction so I used that end O_O

There's suction so I used that end O_O

SendMeUrDataLog

There's suction so I used that end O_O

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

There's suction so I used that end O_O

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

There's suction so I used that end O_O

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

There's suction so I used that end O_O

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes

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