Progress Thread What To Do With My Frankenstein

Marcolivier · Dec 31, 2016

As long as they work well and last fairly long, I'll be satisfied with the wheels. This car doesn't see winter, so I hope they last a while. They are Chinese knock offs after all, 250$ more still makes them the cheapest wheels around by a long shot.

I plan on having new brackets laser cut for the brakes. I deal with laser cutting pretty frequently and I know a place that will do it for pretty cheap in about week. I'll have to do some cad drawing when I start work next week and have them made. I'm expecting it to cost me 10$-20$ a piece.

Marcolivier · Dec 31, 2016

Lowering block Questions.

First off, my heynes manuel doesn't look anything like what I have on my car, is that normal???

I took apart my U-bolts and I am trying to figure out a good way to lower my car by one inch. I see 3 options.

1. I have a custom pieces made that fit perfectly between these two pieces. Probably cost me 150-300$ for 2 custom blocks at my local machine shop. Aluminium with a recess on one side and a bump on the other to fit the Oblong shape.

2. I grind down the lump on the piece in the picture below and buy this block from summit:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/aaf-all56130/overview/
It's dirt cheap, but will it move around on me and do weird things to my suspension and alignment? The pin in 9/16 and the hole in the differential casing is over 1 inch and oblong shape. There would be nothing centering it from underneath ether, just the ubolts and the weight of the car.

3. This is my least favorite, but looks like it's the way people are doing it? Remove the piece that covers the spring and insert that lowering block from summit directly between the leaf spring and the differential casing flange. The aluminium block would be directly impacted from the springs movement and I'm afraid it might break? (Looks kind of week to begin with, extruded aluminium I'm guessing?) That pin in the leaf spring would hold it in place tho. Like in a sandwich between the pieces in this photo:

In option 3, like the next photo, what stops the differential and the whole u-bolt assembly from sliding forward and backwards on the spring say 1 inch in any direction? (The pin from the block has that much play in the differential casing flange hole) Could that mess up my alignment at every bump in the road?

Well I hope I was clear in my question, it's difficult to explain what I want to know, let me know if it is unclear pls. Is there a better way of doing it?

Adieu · Dec 31, 2016

Marcolivier said:
Lowering block Questions.

First off, my heynes manuel doesn't look anything like what I have on my car, is that normal???

I took apart my U-bolts and I am trying to figure out a good way to lower my car by one inch. I see 3 options.

1. I have a custom pieces made that fit perfectly between these two pieces. Probably cost me 150-300$ for 2 custom blocks at my local machine shop. Aluminium with a recess on one side and a bump on the other to fit the Oblong shape.

2. I grind down the lump on the piece in the picture below and buy this block from summit:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/aaf-all56130/overview/
It's dirt cheap, but will it move around on me and do weird things to my suspension and alignment? The pin in 9/16 and the hole in the differential casing is over 1 inch and oblong shape. There would be nothing centering it from underneath ether, just the ubolts and the weight of the car.

3. This is my least favorite, but looks like it's the way people are doing it? Remove the piece that covers the spring and insert that lowering block from summit directly between the leaf spring and the differential casing flange. The aluminium block would be directly impacted from the springs movement and I'm afraid it might break? (Looks kind of week to begin with, extruded aluminium I'm guessing?) That pin in the leaf spring would hold it in place tho. Like in a sandwich between the pieces in this photo:

In option 3, like the next photo, what stops the differential and the whole u-bolt assembly from sliding forward and backwards on the spring say 1 inch in any direction? (The pin from the block has that much play in the differential casing flange hole) Could that mess up my alignment at every bump in the road?

Well I hope I was clear in my question, it's difficult to explain what I want to know, let me know if it is unclear pls. Is there a better way of doing it?

On the IIs, there's an oval shaped hole that has the pin through the middle if I recall correctly. Depending on what time I get up tomorrow, I may or may not be putting my traction bars on my II (Stumpy did an AMAZING job on these, you guys are going to love the pics and write-up in my thread), and if I do, I'll post pics of what the stock setup looks like when I take it apart.

Marcolivier said:
Brakes don't fit.

I'm with @jozsefsz , those brackets could be fixed to fit correctly fairly simply. A good welding shop and/or machine shop could do it if you don't feel comfortable with it.

Marcolivier said:
Any suggestions for tires? I want a real sticky tire that does not cost an arm and a leg and is drivable in the rain.

Is this any good: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/d....do&fl=&pc=40527&counter=0&ar=35&rd=18&cs=285

Are drag radials horrible in the rain? How do they perform in a corner?

Drag radials and rain don't mix. Drag radials only carry a D.O.T. number because they meet the minimum requirements for a street tire.

A good sticky tire in the rain would be Hankook Ventus S1 Noble, Firestone Firehawk WideOval A/S, Nexen N'Priz, or tires that are similar that have good water channels. I can warn you that Pirelli PzeroNero's suck horribly in rain, and that Uniroyal Tiger Paw A/S's are good in the rain until you find their limit, and then they become a nightmare (it's like an on/off switch at it's traction limit in the rain).

Marcolivier · Dec 31, 2016

I'm installing the same traction bars from stumpy as well as other stuff. The first 3 pics are from my car, the last one is from the web.

Do you know of a place that make lowering blocks that will fit our cars? If I could just buy some that would be best.

Adieu · Dec 31, 2016

Marcolivier said:
I'm installing the same traction bars from stumpy as well as other stuff. The first 3 pics are from my car, the last one is from the web.

Do you know of a place that make lowering blocks that will fit our cars? If I could just buy some that would be best.

http://www.racerwalsh.zoovy.com/category/suspension.roadracecircletrack.rear_lowering_kit/

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Aluminum-Extruded-Leaf-Spring-Lowering-Blocks,3353.html

Marcolivier · Dec 31, 2016

Thank you for that racer Walsch link. I guess you forget about that middle piece and install that between the spring and the diff casing. That would defenetly work.

Marcolivier · Dec 31, 2016

Any suggestions on were to buy some good quality wheel spacers 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern, 2.5 inch thick?

Adieu · Dec 31, 2016

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335821607&icep_item=252435902485

No idea how good the quality actually is. I put a similar pair of spacers on a utility trailer made from an old pickup bed once to make a set of 90s GM K1500 wheels bolt to a '64 Chevy axle, but that's my only experience with the things.

jozsefsz · Jan 1, 2017

74stang2togo said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-WHEEL-SPA...ash=item3ac65a3015:g:iqAAAOSwHnFV2gX6&vxp=mtr

Those types of spacers are as solid as anything. As long as you torque them properly (and make sure your studs don't protrude past the face of the adapter) they're much stronger than the wheel itself and aren't going anywhere. I have the 2" version on my front-end. I get more worried about the 2-piece spacers (I have those in the back) than these adapters and those have never given me a problem either. With any adapter, a hub-centric design (vs. the lug-centric design that these are) gives you less chance of misalignment or balance issues. It might be worth your time to measure the hub and look for a hub-centric spacer. If not available then a lug-centric should work just fine -- as I mention I've never had a problem but your mileage may vary.

Marcolivier · Jan 1, 2017

I looked into it a little bit. Hub centric would basically mean modifying just about every piece. The disc is 2.75, the axle is 2.5, the wheel is 70.5mm and the only hubcentric spacers I found in my dimensions are something else. I would need to remachine the axles and press on a 70.5mm od sleeve, then turn the disc to fit. Then make a custom spacer.

The wholes on the discs are rly tight on the studs and every other nut is conical, so I am going the easy (lug centric) route for now. I'm keeping the hubcentric idea as plan b. If I can find a hub spacer to match my 2.75 ID discs to my 2.5 OD axle, I would do that in a heart beat. Any suggestions were to find that?

Marcolivier · Jan 1, 2017

I think I have come up with a cheap way to make a better lowering block than what's on the market. My favorite are the walsh spacers, but you need to remove the piece that goes over the spring. That piece hugs the leaf spring and is guided by a pin. I think it is designed to align the lower plate with the spring via those u-bolt holes. I might just be overthinking it, but I don't want to make my suspension sloppier, I want everything nice and tight. I'll make some drawings next week and post them on here.

Marcolivier · Jan 6, 2017

Progress pics

Marcolivier · Jan 7, 2017

I am starting to figure out next winters project. (It might start creeping into this winters project, depends how reasonable I am.)

I want boost, I have some experience messing with turbos and I LOVE the feeling of a turboed car. It just makes me happy a few seconds at a time.

I don't want to spend the big money or start a big project just yet, so there will be no rebuilding of the motor this winter (probably).

I am debating rebuilding my carb for a blow-threw application / installing a https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-30-4900
with rpm and data logging. I would then mess with cams and carb injectors to lean out my na motor. Gain some much needed experience with carbs before taking on tuning a boosted carb.

OR / AND

Trying to figure out a way to add boost retard to my distributor. Perhaps change some of the ignition system. I have almost no experience messing with distributors, I think a mechanical distributor with centrifuge type retard and a vaccum / boost ,advance / retard mechanism would be best, but not rly sure. Just sounds like an electronic MSD control would be $$$. This is what I need help with. I would need a very reliable set-up. I would need a way to detect a problem before it is too late also. Perhaps a knock sensor? Any suggestions or perhaps explain what has worked for you?

jozsefsz · Jan 7, 2017

Love the boost myself, I know what you mean. My 95 is turbo (kit) as is my 78 II with the 2.8L (completely home-fabricated and using the highest quality eBay parts ).

As far as that gauge, that's some serious cash (not that anything in turbo country is cheap, but I save where I can). I have a wideband on both my cars and I like the Innovate LC2 -- great setup for about half that price. Configurable, multiple outputs and datalogs too. I like the concept of the "failsafe" strategy on that AEM, but I don't really know what that would do on a carbureted car. OK, say AFR goes lean at a certain boost / RPM, what does it do? It can't alter your timing, cut off fuel, or open the wastegate on a carbureted car so idk what you'd get from it. Watching your gauges and listening for problems is probably needed anyways, you're the best "failsafe." But to some degree or another, things can happen, though at lower boost levels it's not exactly as much of a time-bomb as folks would have you believe. If something sounds or feels wrong, let off the freakin' gas.

Personally I'm less than comfortable with carbureted forced induction. I'm running a home-modified Holley and to get it to work the power-valve ports are drilled, and the backfire-protection is removed, as well as the choke and choke horn. It felt very kludgey to me, as it's all about the power-valve at boost (the main jets would be pig-rich during non-boosted conditions if you were trying to get the to the 11:1 or so that's good under boost). Drilling into a $300+ casting just isn't my idea of fun. If I had it to do again I'd buy an off-the-shelf carb ready for boost, but not much selection that doesn't require crazy amounts of tuning for a 2.8 V6. You'll have it easier with a 302. By comparison my 95 feels very clean -- everything in the tune, electronically controlled and protected, and extremely reliable. If it all possible I'd go with an injected setup and computer tune if money and time were no object and reliability was the most important thing to you. In my case for example, without a choke, the car's now a 2-season vehicle. Those are all my personal opinions and certainly other cases can be made.

You're right a decent distributor with vacuum boost-retard will work just fine. In my case again nothing available, so I just retard base timing a bit and I've not had any issues. These aren't high-compression engines so they can handle a little boost without detonation provided your fueling is cautious and your timing isn't over-aggressive. I also stick with around 5-6psi of boost max on the old girl (my 95 goes to 10 or 11 typically), which is more than enough to get my 95bhp clunker on the highway safely, and to put a grin on your face with a 302 without risking the engine. Beyond that much boost and you're also looking at clutch / transmission / rear-end / suspension improvements being needed to handle the power. Those things can be added in due time, and the boost slowly cranked up as you get more comfortable using a boost controller (boost is always eventually cranked up, one of the laws of nature). Truth be told though 2.8's and 302's are cheap comparatively so I don't worry all that much if some catastrophe hit me (though I've been doing this for about 8 years without issue). You seem to do good work (as above) and pay attention to detail, that puts you leaps ahead of a lot of the boosted schmucks out there who get by on nothing but pure luck, I'm sure you'll do great with it.

Marcolivier · Jan 7, 2017

I had a aem Uego in my modern 4 cyl home made set-up in another lifetime. I found that the gauge itself isn't all that great because when the boost hits I rly want to be looking forward. I also had a mecanical boost gauge (autometer I think) that lost it's 0 real quick.

What I am rly looking for is logging a/f, boost and rpm in one graph reliably.

Can you log boost and rpm with the lc-2?

Marcolivier · Jan 7, 2017

How is the car at WOT before boost kicks in? Is it pig rich due to the oversized power valve holes?

jozsefsz · Jan 8, 2017

The lc2 doesn't track boost at all, I have a separate gauge for that (and have never really datalogged it). So the AEM does look pretty cool for that.

You can be at WOT lower in the RPM range before your boost builds -- the lag essentially. You can also be drawing from the main jets at less-than-WOT (higher load conditions) so the main jets need to be sized to accommodate those conditions too. The power-valve is the only piece that can really be load / boost-referenced in a carbureted car so that's where much of the extra fuel for full-boost conditions is tuned in.

The power valve kicks in when you go below a certain manifold vacuum, so under regular conditions I've not had it cause excessive richness. Though I can't begin to claim I'm perfectly tuned, I idle at around 13:1 afr, cruise at around 14:1, and hit near 11:1 at boost. The idle mixture was set the same as on an unboosted car, and the main jets were likewise sized the same as if no boost. The power valve is what was massaged to make sure I got enough fuel at boost. That was my simple process at least.

Marcolivier · Jan 9, 2017

I'd be real happy with those numbers. I'm going to buy a rebuilt kit and see in what shape my carb actually is before I change anything.

I think I'm going to kick my coilover all together. I'm keeping the adjustable shocks and cutting down the springs that were in there. Feels almost as stiff and I can get the car lower. It will compensate for the larger tire diameter I'm putting in the front.

Thinking of going 255/40r17. It's 2 inch bigger in dia. from my 205/50r15. How many turns do I remove for approx 1inch in drop?

LILCBRA · Jan 10, 2017

I have one full coil cut from my front springs, although I really don't know how much it actually dropped the front end. There are pics of my car in the member rides section in this forum with 13" tires still on it if that helps you to judge. In my estimation, you could probably cut about an inch, maybe a hair less and achieve a one inch drop. Most of that initial inch wouldn't really be affected when at rest or under load. I'm not sure what the wire size is of the spring, but roughly half of that inch would just be material removal, so the compression you're looking to lose would be about 1/2". It's been forever, but I think a full coil is about 2 or maybe 3" at rest? Start conservative, cut about 1/2 a coil and reassemble, check and go from there. Just keep in mind that you'll need to have everything installed in the engine compartment so you're dealing with what the car is going to weigh. It's gonna be a bit of work, but probably about the only way you'll know for sure.

Marcolivier · Jan 13, 2017

My laser cut stuff came in today, You can see were I am going with my lowering blocks.

Progress Thread What To Do With My Frankenstein

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