'88 GT Convertible - Croatia, Europe

snovak · Oct 4, 2021

@90sickfox I wish so, but don't You think it would hardly travel thru crankshaft up to oil filter, driver side lower timing cover to block bolts...? Would it?
Eitherway, inspection cover is off, I will re-check again. Thnx.
I also plan to disconnect engine and AOD and check situation around flexplate to crank bolts....maybe run the engine without tranny...

With checking the flexplate and exhaust manifold gasket I am out of options and rebuild is next logical step... :-(

90sickfox · Oct 4, 2021

Listen to the timing cover behind water pump. If noise is there it could be the camshaft bolt has come loose or the oil slinger is hitting cover. The flywheel usually won't make noise travel to the front of engine.

Noise that loud should've given definite evidence of where it is. I'd expect bearings or pistons to be completely torn up making that type of noise. Video audio can be deceiving though.

General karthief · Oct 4, 2021

From the sound clip I agree with the flywheel/block plate thing.
A wrist pin would make a knock like a 'wet slap'

snovak · Oct 5, 2021

@90sickfox and @General karthief You may be right afterall...
It's pretty tight there between flexplate and block plate (and I don't know there really boroscope went) but I clearly see aluminium scraping, and particles of plate when pulling boroscope out (third picture)...

Althru I need to separate engine and tranny, if this is what knock was, it would be a rise from the ashes for this fox and me...

Still need to confirm, but... how did that happen?
Clogged tranny cooling lines?
(I have had thrust bearing failure, latest leaks at coolinf line-to-aod fittings, and noticed tranny tunnel warm on last few rides which I assumed was from hot weather back then...)
Did I mess up changing engine and tranny mounts? The old ones were shot... so new ones may had raised engine/tranny if it matters...

General karthief · Oct 5, 2021

I just agreed with him (90sickfox)

90sickfox · Oct 5, 2021

There really isn't anything that will cause the block plate to move. Im guessing heatvcoukd make it warp a little but shouldn't be enough to touch the flexplate. I've seen flex plates crack though just from use over the years. Doesn't happen as much on ford's but chevys do it all the time.

There's also a piece the sits at the bottom at the front of the bell housing. If something hit and bent it there it can cause it to rub.

I hope this is the only problem and you'll be back to driving around soon. Atleast now you've added a bunch of time to your engine with the new bearings. They were really about to destroy something.

Sometimes my car will lead me down the fix this and fix that path. I think it's just leading me to other things that would've been a big issue if I hadn't found them when I did. Without the knock you wouldn't have done your bearings. Your car is just making you think on your toes.

snovak · Oct 11, 2021

Update... I was having 'fun' putting back the front springs in their place (in order to stay alive, I used backside method with lowering LCA bushings towards engine with 100% success).
I still have some (maybe stupid) belief that the knock is outside of the engine. My goal is to separate aod from engine and start it without tranny before pulling the engine for rebuild.

Today I took out the flexplate to converter bolts and as soon as I took them out saw some (at least) 1/4" play between flexplate/crank and converter (see pictures).
All four holes are oval and when turning the crank You can hear knock. The bolts were tight, one of them much more than others, but all of them are shiny at the back....
Is this normal or may I have some issues with flexplate/converter?

General karthief · Oct 11, 2021

That could be the knock.

snovak · Oct 15, 2021

As waiting for parts to arrive I tightened flexplate to converter once more and this time I took out the front pulley and made a video for You guys at HB:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/AGlp3cUEK4I?feature=share

...ant at flexplate:

View: https://youtu.be/SS4GIdhzj6o

Maybe You hear something I don't...

snovak · Oct 24, 2021

Got it apart.
Okay guys, help: what is this? Flexplate to crank bolts pressed into converter face?

manicmechanic007 · Oct 24, 2021

There is an old TSB for that
I think they were just putting washers between the converter and flex plate to begin with and had updated parts after that
Machine or grind down the heads of those flexplate bolts and that should do you
You could get technical and make them all weigh the same or buy some with not as thick a head

That is why they call it a flex plate
Early E4OD in trucks was so bad it punched holes in a few converters and made them leak fluid

snovak · Oct 24, 2021

manicmechanic007 said:
That is why they call it a flex plate
Early E4OD in trucks was so bad it punched holes in a few converters and made them leak fluid

Thnx. Yap, got that part "flex"-plate but as I chase knock source after crank play fix I automatically saw this as a potential pushing of the crank too much forward or converter balooning or whatever...
By Your reaction this may be normal...

manicmechanic007 · Oct 24, 2021

Put it back together and retest it after new or modified bolts
They knock real bad with those bolts contacting the converter

Not normal if they are knocking
Normal in the sense that they are so close that there are often witness marks where the bolts were
If they do not knock the marks are normal

90sickfox · Oct 24, 2021

That isn't normal at all. You could install a washer between the torque converter studs and the flywheel. This would be the easiest way to tell if it's the problem. Seems like it is the knocking noise you heard. If the torque converter was bad it should've shown some other driving issues.

In one of the videos you posted it sounded like a scraping noise. The photo also looks like the spacer plate that goes between the flex plate and block is rubbing also. I'd pull the flex plate off and check the spacer plate and back of flex plate.

snovak · Oct 25, 2021

manicmechanic007 said:
Put it back together and retest it after new or modified bolts
They knock real bad with those bolts contacting the converter

I don't know if knock is from here... chasing it from lifters to bottom bearings.... None of it helped. If it ain't gonna be from flexplate or exhaust manifold only thing left is a wrist pin.

I have new pioneer heavy duty flexplate to change it eitherway when I am down there, and new ARP bolts arriving. ARP bolts should be sized according to TSB I suppose?

snovak · Oct 25, 2021

90sickfox said:
That isn't normal at all. You could install a washer between the torque converter studs and the flywheel. This would be the easiest way to tell if it's the problem. Seems like it is the knocking noise you heard. If the torque converter was bad it should've shown some other driving issues.

IIRC I had some occasional felt like "shaking of the back end" at ~40mph and cruising throttle.
I also had something like very rare misfire.
I didn't contribute that to TC....

90sickfox · Oct 25, 2021

snovak said:
IIRC I had some occasional felt like "shaking of the back end" at ~40mph and cruising throttle.
I also had something like very rare misfire.
I didn't contribute that to TC....

A bad torque converter can cause shudder at 40mph. It'll feel kinda like running over rumble strips. It usually just happens at a certain speed range and goes away when you go faster or slower. Was a common issue on some newer 4.6 liter ford's like the crown victoria. It's a failure of torque converter lock up for overdrive. Very rarely have I ever heard a torque converter or flex plate knock. Especially without being obviously cracked or the torque converter to flex plate or crank bolts being loose.

I don't mean to feed your anxiety.

snovak · Oct 25, 2021

90sickfox said:
I don't mean to feed your anxiety.

You can't, the beast eat enough chasing this knock source

I found this behing flexplate...was this rubbing enough to make a knock? ..or to pull crank back so the thrust bearing was worn more in front?
Where did this aluminum came from?!

90sickfox · Oct 25, 2021

Looks like you found it.

manicmechanic007 · Oct 25, 2021

Damn straight
You be more careful than they were installing the motor as to not bend the crap out of the block plate
After all the work you have done this will be a relief

'88 GT Convertible - Croatia, Europe

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Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Active Member

Attachments

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Active Member

Active Member

Attachments

Active Member

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Active Member

Active Member

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Active Member

Attachments

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

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