Do 2v 4.6's in the 96-98 have more HP potential than a 5.0?

[final5-0]

101mph is the right mph for a Bullitt. Seen a couple pull 102 if I recall...

Many PI 2v's would hit very high 13's at 99-100 mph bone stock.

The Bullitt got a better intake than the typical PI 2v.

......................................

Grady, do you have a graph of a stock 5.0L. I would like to see that See how a stock 5.0L compares to a stock 4.6L.

David

I'll see what I can do later this weekend about a comparison of an OEM
5.0 stick Stang to pair up with that C&L pull

No way I've ever tried to say mod motors don't or can't make the power

I just don't wanna have to rev it up and pop the clutch to make it happen

Just cause mod motors can put up a low et ... That ain't enough for me :Word:

I had all that stuff when I was a kid
and
Did the 1/4 mile thing every weekend

Its just my personal preference of .....
how I like a motor to behave in my Street Car

Just like I'd rather have the power curve of a KB
as opposed to
Any of the centri blower choices

These Days ... I'm all about the Street
and ... IMHO
More Torque = More Street Car Fun

Grady

 

[5spd GT]

David

I'll see what I can do later this weekend about a comparison of an OEM
5.0 stick Stang to pair up with that C&L pull

No way I've ever tried to say mod motors don't or can't make the power

I just don't wanna have to rev it up and pop the clutch to make it happen

Just cause mod motors can put up a low et ... That ain't enough for me :Word:

I had all that stuff when I was a kid
and
Did the 1/4 mile thing every weekend

Its just my personal preference of .....
how I like a motor to behave in my Street Car

Just like I'd rather have the power curve of a KB
as opposed to
Any of the centri blower choices

These Days ... I'm all about the Street
and ... IMHO
More Torque = More Street Car Fun

Grady

To each his own

As long as we are having fun doing it...

Oh, and my comments weren't made to you about 'not making power', I didn't even read the entire thread until after I made a comment or two

 

[final5-0]

To each his own

As long as we are having fun doing it...

Oh, and my comments weren't made to you about 'not making power', I didn't even read the entire thread until after I made a comment or two

I took no offense at anything you said David

I'm working on arriving numerical values for that C&L 3 valve pull as we speak

I want you to know

I had to search a good bit
to find a pull for a stock stick trans 5.0

But I finally did find one

Maybe I should put it in a new thread
as
This is not really what Keith started asking about with his original Q

Grady

 

[Joe 5.0]

Or have the tq of a 347 + a centrifugal blower for top end pull.


I have driven a couple 99+ GT's and honestly, not that impressed. I like high revving engines too (my Acura has an awesome pull from 5k-7k), but the 2V's (stock) die off after 5k rpm just like the 5.0's do, but not as drastically.

Its really just a personal preference, as both can be made fast for similar money.

Lets be honest too, if you are looking for 700+hp, you dont really care about spending $1k for a block. At that point its just about making insane power, not budget.

 

[S351Saleen77]

ot post of the day:


saleen what color is your car?

Its Red

I think there is 4 or 5 solid choices for the 4.6L. Fox Lake, VT, Steen, Sean Hyland, SVO, and a couple others if I recall.

So for the 5.0L, I remember AFR, TW's, Edelbrock, Holley, Ford Racing.

My math may be off...but you count the difference for me

4.6L blocks, even the 2v's are nice I had read where one of them went to 1400 or 1700hp...

There are still new heads coming out for the 5.0 12yrs after they quit putting it in a stang!!. Jegs has a new head designed by Jon Kaase, other makers are Dart, Brodix,...... I can't even remember all the people who make them! Plus for each manufacturer they have several choices so you have many to choose from. I have a Edelbrock catalog here so I took a look at the Victor Jr's like I have. When I got mine their was one 1 choice now you can get them with a 60cc or 70cc comb chamber, or Glidden 18deg CNC, Glidden 18deg Pro port, Vic Jr Pro port. They have 11 part #'s just for Victor Jr's alone!! , 7 #'s for Performers, 4#'s for Rpm, and 7 part #'s for Victor heads. Plus for 5.0 heads you have all the porters out there too that you can send your heads to.

On the 4.6 which I don't know that much about so I admit I could very well be wrong, I didn't know that people were making aftermarket 2v heads for them? So all these people are now producing all new aftermarket heads?? Wow thats great if they are!

I thought they were just porting the stock heads....and that was the 99 up heads not the 96-98.? I know someone that bought some from Livernois Motorsports, their Stage 3 heads and they flow 225cfm intake and 205cfm exhaust and they were $1895 Plus you had to send in a core! I don't know if 96-98 cores are the ones they want? or you have to send in 99up? Anyway that dosen't seem like alot of intake flow to me for the money, the exhaust flow is good though. I think the Patriot stage 2 heads come with 1.781/1.452-inch valves. Which are not very large compared to a 5.0 head.

So thats what I meant by there were many head choices for the 5.0. I didn't think there were nearly as many choices for the 4.6.

 

[5spd GT]

As of right now, they all use PI head cast. They are ported from different suppliers.

They port Non-PI and PI heads...

Just give them time....the 5.0L has got decades of aftermarket to get where it is at today. So I think we should give the 4.6L a bit more time...

There are two different engines, the cfm isn't something to base all decisions on as far as flow. They can make 300rwhp easily, just like the 5.0L (with .4 more liters)...

They both are fun to play with, either way

 

[S351Saleen77]

As of right now, they all use PI head cast. They are ported from different suppliers.

They port Non-PI and PI heads...

Just give them time....the 5.0L has got decades of aftermarket to get where it is at today. So I think we should give the 4.6L a bit more time...

There are two different engines, the cfm isn't something to base all decisions on as far as flow. They can make 300rwhp easily, just like the 5.0L (with .4 more liters)...

They both are fun to play with, either way

I agree, Both are fun!! . I do hope the aftermarket starts making heads for the 4.6.

Another new head to the 5.0 market is Pro Comp. They have them on Ebay complete for $699!!!!.You can get either 190cc or 210cc intake ports.
The 210's flow 308cfm intake and 235cfm exhaust @ .600 If you want to make power you still need airflow, (and 225 on the intake and $1900 plus a core for the 4.6 heads my buddy paid just seems crazy to me!) when these are more than $1000 less and the exhaust flows more than the 4.6's intake he got. Hopefully the aftermarket can make a head and bring the cost way down. The link shows a flow chart also.

Heres the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PRO-...005QQitemZ150136532110QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[Therian]

I wonder if those heads are any good. They remind of me of the tri-state heads (which were junk)...

 

[5spd GT]

I like to choose quality (head design) over quantity (cfm flow) There is more to heads than what they flow at .XXX lift.

It is the entire rpm range

 

[S351Saleen77]

I wonder if those heads are any good. They remind of me of the tri-state heads (which were junk)...

I hope these heads are good They are new so I guess we will find out! They are a Great price!!

I like to choose quality (head design) over quantity (cfm flow) There is more to heads than what they flow at .XXX lift.

It is the entire rpm range

I agree with you!

The link showed what they flow from .1" to .6" at .1" steps. So you can get a pretty good idea of the entire rpm range.

 

[reddy351]

Do you think that the old "Y block" and "FE" guys were having discussions like this, when the 221(!)Windsor came out in the early 60's? The reason I ask is because 5.0's are no longer being produced. We either learn to get along with the 4.6/5.4 engines or get lost in the shuffle.

I still firmly believe in our little 5.0's but, I think that 10 more years will have the 4.6 outpowering 5.0 pushrod motors, by a long shot. And cheaper, too. The design is already there, just need a profitable reason for somebody to start making real aftermarket parts for them. (It took the 5.0 Mustang getting popular before us old timers even got to THINK about nice heads and intakes. I had a 351w w/ some ported 1969 351w heads and a "Streetmaster" intake. A low rise, small port, "RV" type of intake. Gack!!!! I thought I was hot $hit!)

 

[final5-0]

Rob

I'm only using the quotes to keep my thoughts together and not directing
any of my remarks ... at you

Do you think that the old "Y block" and "FE" guys were having discussions like this, when the 221(!)Windsor came out in the early 60's? The reason I ask is because 5.0's are no longer being produced.

Could not say ... I'm old ... but ... Not that old

We either learn to get along with the 4.6/5.4 engines or get lost in the shuffle.

I don't buy into that

If pr motors are so out dated ...
What about that new state of the art one Chevy has done.
Its really nice from what little I've seen about it

Speaking of old technology
Know anything about ... Top Fuel Motors
Where do you think all that came from
Hemi Baby
I'm talking R E A L Hemis ... Not the Hemis you see in cars these days

Point is ... As long as peeps want something ... It will be around

The small block ford motor is gonna be around for a long, long time :Word:

I still firmly believe in our little 5.0's but, I think that 10 more years will have the 4.6 outpowering 5.0 pushrod motors, by a long shot. And cheaper, too. The design is already there, just need a profitable reason for somebody to start making real aftermarket parts for them. (It took the 5.0 Mustang getting popular before us old timers even got to THINK about nice heads and intakes. I had a 351w w/ some ported 1969 351w heads and a "Streetmaster" intake. A low rise, small port, "RV" type of intake. Gack!!!! I thought I was hot $hit!)

Ford is mainly and maybe completely focused on making money.
I can understand that but they certainly don't put high performance
very high up on their list of priorities.

The mod motors down falling is it has no low end torque and that could
have been taken care of simply with more cubes ... excuse me ...
more liters.

Hey ... Ford did not even give us an option to increase the mod motors
size ... Well ... From what I've seen ... Not enough to really make all
that much difference

Of course ... Ford found a way to make some low end
but
They had to do it with a little blower

I had a 428 Cobra Jet when I was a kid and I gotta tell you .......
Ain't nothing like a big block for cruising around town
cause
You got torque ... anywhere ... anytime ... in the power band

You just can't do that with a tiny motor
at least not with a NA combo that is

I just got done lookin at many different NA sohc and dohc mod
motored combos.

No matter how you go about it ... its a high revin kinda motor and
it just don't make much low end torque.

I ain't saying none of those combos did not make power

So ... Yes ... More and more power is gonna be coming from those
over grown motorcycle motors but there is more to having a hot
rod than peak dyno values or low et's.

Nope ... the mod motor is lacking in an area that to me is critical
and
No amount of attention, public relations, high profile advertising on ......
1/4 mile results
or
Total/Peak horse power
is gonna be enough to cover up its short comings

Grady

 

[cbarr300]

I love low-end torque....car's like an automatic. If you wanna pass someone all you have to do is give it some gas.

I also like top-end pull...nothing beats being pinned to the seat at 5000 rpm.

Now, of course I'm boosted (only running 7-8 PSI)....but when I had a N/A dyno pull I hit my 300 at roughly the same mark. The heads are cheapy windsor Jrs w/ a bit of a port job, cam at that time was still a blower cam w/.536 lift (1.6 RR), and the intake is a ported 94-95 cobra. This was running LTs and a BBK H with borla cat-back. You figure that it's a pretty low budget build-up as the intake came on the car. Heads and cam I got for $850.

every 2v and even the 3v I've been in just felt like a dog. The only one that felt decent was one with gears

 

[cbarr300]

Hey Grady....I'd think it'd be rather hard to find.....

but I'd like to see one of our motors up against a 2v 5.4 (maybe one taken out of a truck ) and see how their torque looks.

my figuring is that we're .4 liters bigger than a 4.6
and a 5.4 is .4 liters bigger than a 5.0 (well...4.9 technically.....). I'd like to see that difference if at all possible

 

[5spd GT]

I love low-end torque....car's like an automatic. If you wanna pass someone all you have to do is give it some gas.

I also like top-end pull...nothing beats being pinned to the seat at 5000 rpm.

every 2v and even the 3v I've been in just felt like a dog. The only one that felt decent was one with gears

Try a PI 4.6 2V at 6,000 rpm or better yet a 3v.

Every stock geared 5.0L I have been in has been a dog

 

[final5-0]

Every stock geared 5.0L I have been in has been a dog

I'd have to agree with you on that David
You just can't expect a lot with tall gears

I'd really like the opportunity to drive a 3 valve with 410's

I drove one just recently with 355's and while it was a little
bit better than an 05 I drove when they first came out ...
It was still geared way too tall for my tastes.

Still ... you can't expect gears to change the way a motor makes
power ... gears will just get you through a soft low end quicker.

I guess I could be comfortable in saying this
For a stick trans Street Car ... no matter if 5.0 or Mod Motor .......
I'm gonna want no less than 373's

This makes me want to ask another question
but
That is for another thread

Grady

 

[cbarr300]

with the top-end pull I was referring to my current set-up. Stock geared 5.0s don't make chit up top....which is where the blower comes into the pic....of course, we're not talking blown cars here.

Those mod motors make more up top than ours stock for stock...no second guessing that.