The Megasquirt plug in 5.0 ECU is $839, pay for 2 tunes and you could have gotten a ECU that will automatically tune for whatever you choose to change/upgrade in the future, assuming you also get a wideband O2 sensor. And you can do away with the need for a MAF sensor as MS runs a 5.0 fine on speed density. So yes today to pay for a tune IMHO is kinda wasting $$$, on a 1 time solution vs. a permanent solution.
This is good because remember:
The digital portion was created specifically from the physical characteristics of the mechanical devices. The devices themselves determined the values, not the other way around. It stands to reason that if you change those mechanical devices in part or in whole that you should also change that part of the digital component that holds the registered values of those mechanical devices. In other words: Describe the new MAF or new injector in a language that the original ECU understands. This is the basic concept of chip tuning something like an A9L. We haven't touched the program itself. All we've really done is swap some register values in order to define the components in our combo.
Of course, the alternative is to either modify the input signal of a sensor to fool the ECU into thinking all it normal or modify the output signal to make the ECU think it is signaling the OEM component (a MIL eliminator is a great example of this... No cat, no problem).
Now, I will give the Nay-Sayers their due... There were many years where modifying an ECU in this way was either not possible (the hardware didn't exist), not cost-effective compared to other means, and not expected to provide good driving manners in a school zone through a Windsor pumping out NASCAR level power levels and beyond.
As far as the modern age has pushed the 'cubic inch', accuracy and resolution are more important than ever. Particularly, if you want it to cruise nicely.
and what exactly is a Tune with an original ECU ??? how you gona tell your original ECU that you changed from original 19lbs Injectors to 30 lbs .. for example? you go to 75mm maf and 75 TB change your intake Heads, bigger cam, Injectors,LT headers, stroker etc and someone really wants to tell me that your 30 year old ECU will handle all that correctly??? Dream on ....mine didnt ..and tried 2 different originals ..engine was running ass lean ..wide band showed AFR readings up to 18:1 and worse... so I am happy with my MS and my ..some kind of expensive Engine.. too ...
You do this with a chip. One like the one I have installed. The one that has new registers for my 80mm PMAS MAF, 42 lb injectors, 1 3/4 long tubes, and 80mm TB, all over a 347 C.I. stoker using a 2.2L Kenne Bell as the intake.
It's a 4-bank Chip. One of those banks has a "Valet" tune. I got it done at Hi-Tech Performance in Minneapolis some 15 years ago.
Yes... That is exactly right. I believe mine was made by SCT and is [still] on the market.
I also possess an Anderson Ford PMS for another of my cars. It has a "piggy back" mode that operates just as I described.
In "stand-alone" mode, it lacks the OEM ECU's ability to make minor adjustments.
I mention this because it was was a hot contender against the chiptune that I got. The problem was that then it was insanely expensive.
In "stand-alone" mode, it lacks the OEM ECU's ability to make minor adjustments.
I mention this because it was was a hot contender against the chiptune that I got. The problem was that then it was insanely expensive.
You could get every last horsepower out of either option.
What makes kits like the MegaSquirt and other stand-alone systems really attractive these days is that "infinite tuning capability" that you mentioned.
The other things that help are:
Prices on these systems are now manageable (they are compatible with many kinds of sensors making it cheaper to produce one machine that is suitable for many vehicles)
Improvements in hardware and software have put them in the hands of enthusiasts and not just tuners
A9x computers are now hard to find and expensive
Newer systems have generally higher buss speeds and enough excess core computing power to do other things like... Run a transmission (for example) or logging data (which the A9x will not do).
What makes kits like the MegaSquirt and other stand-alone systems really attractive these days is that "infinite tuning capability" that you mentioned.
The other things that help are:
Prices on these systems are now manageable (they are compatible with many kinds of sensors making it cheaper to produce one machine that is suitable for many vehicles)
Improvements in hardware and software have put them in the hands of enthusiasts and not just tuners
A9x computers are now hard to find and expensive
Newer systems have generally higher buss speeds and enough excess core computing power to do other things like... Run a transmission (for example) or logging data (which the A9x will not do).
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ok... you gonna CHIP tune the Original ---- ok ...but its still an old ECU .. like using a Chip tuned 30 Year old cell phone or a 30 year old Laptop..this is ok if you mod your car and let it like it is ... I m doing a lot of changes ..also have 2 different engines for my car ... so I do change a lot the tunes ... Chip tune is no option for me ...but ok with the Chip tuning the Stock ECU
This is what I mean, does a properly planned 300-350 hp car running a stock ecu need a tune, can it run and drive fine without? I follow you yes .. and as I said .. mine did not worked fine with the Stock ECU ...and i tried 2 different ..it was running way too lean.. so in my opinion you cant drive fine and at some point you mabe will hurt your engine with a stock ECU without a Tune or a Chip or a better Option ..... ok?? but thats my experience ...sorry for confusion..
Need is like more of an opinion.My needs,your needs will differ.Some can live happily without a tune,even if it runs rough as sheeet.And then some what a perfect idle , super smooth all the way up the r.p.m.s. I say build it and see how you like the out come without a tune and if you " need" a tune you can decide on a tuner,achip,or a new ecu. To each his own we 'll all get blown.
most aftermarket systems utilize speed density
on a street car, a maf is preferred
Look at OEM. There ain't no SD systems in OEM that I know of, all maf, at least since the 1990's (which are antiques)
ask yourself why
I'm pretty certain that if OEM's could save a $20 MAF and still provide the good NVH, fuel mileage, drivability, and reliability they would most definitely run the "simpler" SD system. $20 saved is a generality. If they built 300,000 cars all the same with SD (no maf), for a savings of $20 each, that's a savings of $6,000,000. I'm certain that if an automotive manufacturer was given the opportunity to save $6M, they'd do it. But $20 is a VERY general figure to throw out there, I would venture to guess it'd be much more substantial once you figure in the wiring, ecu, intake piping, airbox, and a bunch of other things that benefit the maf system and the sensor itself.
Actually this subject reminds me that I need to order some parts, doing a T4M0 94-95 GT computer in my 93 coupe 4 cylinder so I can run a slot MAF with it (turbo). The VAM system works ok but it's very limited and CRUDE.
on a street car, a maf is preferred
Look at OEM. There ain't no SD systems in OEM that I know of, all maf, at least since the 1990's (which are antiques)
ask yourself why
I'm pretty certain that if OEM's could save a $20 MAF and still provide the good NVH, fuel mileage, drivability, and reliability they would most definitely run the "simpler" SD system. $20 saved is a generality. If they built 300,000 cars all the same with SD (no maf), for a savings of $20 each, that's a savings of $6,000,000. I'm certain that if an automotive manufacturer was given the opportunity to save $6M, they'd do it. But $20 is a VERY general figure to throw out there, I would venture to guess it'd be much more substantial once you figure in the wiring, ecu, intake piping, airbox, and a bunch of other things that benefit the maf system and the sensor itself.
Actually this subject reminds me that I need to order some parts, doing a T4M0 94-95 GT computer in my 93 coupe 4 cylinder so I can run a slot MAF with it (turbo). The VAM system works ok but it's very limited and CRUDE.